96 replies to this topic

[Dihm]

It's an artificial barrier PP. It's just there for gameplay reasons.

[CaveMan]

Prosperity Park, on 22 December 2011 - 08:45 AM, said:

CaveMan, the problem with the way you envision the bidding process unfolding is that there is absolutely no reason for House Davion to reject the Kell Hound's 1million C-bill bid. In fact, House Davion should be thrilled to have such a cheap offer submitted to them.

Edit: When contractors bid for a job, there is a *maximum* bid that cannot be exceeded because only so many dollars are allocated to paying for the job, and the bids go down from there until a lowest bid is reached. The lowest bidder gets the job, and there is no "minimum" limit because it's always in favor of They who are offering the job to accept the lowest bid possible.

Park, I addressed this. 1) it's an arbitrary restriction for gameplay purposes. 2) it can be explained as protection against having your employees bought out by another party.

Don't give yourself an ulcer over it because it isn't perfectly logical

[Ghost73]

MaddMaxx, on 22 December 2011 - 07:04 AM, said:

Perhaps if ALL posts were read then it we be seen as already being posted. Try #35, then yours and again at #56 LOL!.

Well, mine actually included the question also (which had not been posted yet), not just Paul's answer, which is important when trying to figure out the meaning of the answer. Right?

[MaddMaxx]

Ghost73, on 22 December 2011 - 03:12 PM, said:

Well, mine actually included the question also (which had not been posted yet), not just Paul's answer, which is important when trying to figure out the meaning of the answer. Right?

The question is in the Title of the OP....

[Ghost73]

MaddMaxx, on 22 December 2011 - 04:34 PM, said:

The question is in the Title of the OP....

Are you talking about the title of the thread or what? I do not see the exact question from Q&A2 anywhere else in this thread...

[Skarr]

Why do people keep talking about bidding downwards. The Q&A2 didn't involve a maximum bid which it should have if that was the system they were going for.

You are buying a license from a great house to run a planet as you see fit. Obviously the house want as much for these rights as possible. How much these rights are worth to your corporation depends on how long you can hold on to the planet.

[Dihm]

People talk about bidding down because that's how contractors work...

You aren't buying a license to run a planet, you're signing up to a contract to garrison/defend/attack/raid/whatever. You're negotiating how much you'll be paid by the House to do so.

[Skarr]

See that is where you are wrong look at Q&A1

Q&A1 said:

• Border Worlds – Are fought over via a contract bidding system by player run Mercenary Corporations. These planets change hands on a regular basis, and have no impact on historical events. Rewards for controlling a boarder world are significant and go directly to the occupying Merc Corp.

...

Border Worlds

Mercenary Corporations can bid and fight for occupation rights of border worlds throughout the Inner Sphere. Merc Corps must bid on a planet’s occupation rights via a system of contracts generated by the game.

[Dihm]

That has nothing to do with running/managing the planet. We're mercs, not politicians.

[Orzorn]

Dihm, on 22 December 2011 - 07:38 PM, said:

That has nothing to do with running/managing the planet. We're mercs, not politicians.

Actually, read that line again:

Quote

Mercenary Corporations can bid and fight for occupation rights of border worlds throughout the Inner Sphere.

So lets break it down into its individual elements.

This sentence could be restated as such:
Mercenary Corporations can bid for occupation rights of border worlds throughout the Inner Sphere.
Mercenary Corporations can fight for occupation rights of border worlds throughout the Inner Sphere.

Thus, Mercenary Corporations will not bid DOWNWARDS, but will actually bid UPWARDS, as mercenaries are purchasing the occupation rights to a planet. And remember, this is JUST FOR BORDER WORLDS, which we have been told that mercenaries will actually DIRECTLY control. We aren't accepting a contract (not exactly) to attack the planet, we're purchasing the rights to control the planet. On other planets that aren't border worlds, though, we will likely see mercenaries directly accept contracts instead of bidding for rights, because the mercs will NOT get to control the planet after their succeed.

Edited by Orzorn, 22 December 2011 - 07:55 PM.

[Skarr]

Did you read what it said?

Rewards for controlling a border world are significant and go directly to the occupying Merc Corp.

It's right there. In return for controlling a planet for a house you get to collect the planet's riches. Directly doesn't make sense if you are talking about payment from a house.

Obviously as mercs you don't really give a **** about the planet how it's run or it's people as long as you get rich and even if you do it's a mechwarrior game so they cut that stuff out.
If the houses wanted to pay someone for the service of controlling the planet they'd send their own army.

[Felicitatem Parco]

See?

We have half the people here saying that it's obvious that we're getting paid to take a contract, and half the people are saying it's obvious that we're paying to take a contract...


DEVS?!?!?!?

[Mavek]

The problem I see with always going for the guys that are willing to work for the least amount...you basically are saying you are entrusting the safety of the realm to the lowest bidder...

I don't think Victor Davion will be too happy to see his home planet being overrun by Kuritans just because the Davion Heavy Gaurds wanted more money.

For the guys that dont understand 'bidding'...A bid is the amount a company tells an employer it can do a job for a certain amount of money. Like bidding for the contract to build a house. A carpenter takes a look at the plans for the house, and then tells the builder he can do the job for $2.50/ square foot. Another carpenter may bid $2.25/square foot. As long as the builder thinks the carpenter can do the job, he'll go with the guy thats bidding $2.25. Hence the contract goes to the lowest bidder, and the job gets done for as little as possible and the builder pockets a better profit for himself.

If anything, like the matchmaking debate, there should be some modifier to the bid, attached to some kind of relative rating of the unit that makes the bid. So an elite unit can bid more, but still get the contract over a green unit that bids the minimum. It should probably be tied to both/either the units record in combat and loyalty to the contract giver.

Furthermore...having a minimum bid is important, because you could have a green unit say it would work for 1 c-bill, which would not pay for any damage, and leave those green recruits with nothing for the next battle. The minimum is there to help insure players get paid something for playing that they can use for new mechs/repairs for next battle, and keep them in the game.

Edited by Mavek, 22 December 2011 - 09:12 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Prosperity Park, on 22 December 2011 - 08:55 PM, said:

See?

We have half the people here saying that it's obvious that we're getting paid to take a contract, and half the people are saying it's obvious that we're paying to take a contract...


DEVS?!?!?!?

Please can we get a definitive answer?
Not speculation from forum users, but a real answer form a Developer?
Please, please, please?

[Damocles]

And when speculation fails patience must override.

[Dihm]

How do you guys reconcile this weird "mercs pay their employers" thing with this?

Quote

Since a contract system is being used for merc corps. What prevents a merc corp from bidding 1 c-bill for every world they want to fight on if they have sufficient money saved up from previous operations? –Black Sunder

[PAUL] The bidding on a contract involves a minimum bid (i.e. reserve). The bidding is done in a silent auction format where you will not be able to see bids made by other Merc Corps. You will only know that there have been X number of bids placed which all exceed the minimum bid amount. If this reserve is not met, the contract expires.

Lowest bidder wins the contract, but you have to be above the reserve. Contractors paying their employers to do work seems so... counter-intuitive. It makes my brain hurt.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I don't see anything there that says the min bid wins Dihm..and from the other information given us, such as the fact that Merc units who control a planet for a House faction get rewards FROM said planet..makes sense to me that you'd pay for such a contract, the rewards should offset the cost and net you a profit. Which is where the kicker is..do you bid enough to get the contract but cost yourself the profits?

Seriously, it could work either way from what information we've been given AND what we actually are used to concerning how bidding for a job goes. Thing is..Mercs in BTech don't usually bid, contracts are offered with a set fee to be paid upon successful completion of the contract, with extra rewards for completing certain operational objectives, and sometimes lowering of that fee due to operational mess ups.

What leads ME to believe it's highest bidder gets the contract..the fact that in BTech, Mercs don't get paid to control a planet by a House, they have to EARN that right, and it's something all Merc units strive for..becoming large enough and well known enough to EARN their own planet. So..I'll stick with..Mercs pay for the right to take a planet and control it, highest bid gets the honors..and the payout when they control said planet.

[Dihm]

Time will tell I suppose...

I'm positive they'll be more than one type of contract, and planetary "control" won't happen for a good while after a merc unit starts up.

[Halfinax]

There was never anything said that Merc Corps possess planets for Factions. The QnA2 question and answer that this thread is about is for contracts for a contract to a Merc Corp. A completely separate issue from Merc Planetary possession of periphery planets. Merc Corps will bid to get a contract (as in the real world this typically means lowest bidder with a good track record wins the contract.), so the people in good standing AND the lowest bid will likely win most contracts. The way PGI answered this suggests rather implicitly that the minimum acceptable bid (reserve price) will be secret to all bidders. For some reason people seem to be assuming that after the bid a Merc Corp will instantly know whether their bid was accepted or denied, and would therefore be able to figure out what the minimum bid is and exploit that, but I just don't see that being the case. You will bid without knowing what other Merc Corps have bid, and without knowing what the minimum acceptable bid is. You will just have to wait and see after the bidding is over to know whether or not you won the contract. 1 bid per Corp per contract and the guy with the best standing and best (lowest) bid wins the contract.

[Skarr]

Halfinax, on 22 December 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

There was never anything said that Merc Corps possess planets for Factions. The QnA2 question and answer that this thread is about is for contracts for a contract to a Merc Corp. ...

While technically you are correct in that there is no specific reference to a planetary control. That's the only type of contract they talk about in Q&A1

Now the problem with your secret auction 1 bid per corp towards another secret ( abitrary i might add) minimum bid is that this is a guessing game. Players have zero influence on if they get the contract or not, except if people knew the minimum which they will if it's not random after a while and then everyone will bid the minimum.

With a bidding up system over the right to collect profits corporations can actually decide how much they think a contract will be worth to them. Do you think you can hold a planet 4 weeks you can bid four times the amount that a corporation who think they can hold the planet for one week can. This also allows corporation to bid multiple times if they think their initial bid was to low if an auction suddenly becomes massively popular. Bids are secret to prevent last minute sniping and endless 1 c-bill more bids.