19 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Javelin is a 30 ton mech

It gets 5 CT structure 5 LT structure and 5 RT structure.

Unless you're the hero:
10 CT
10 RT
10 LT
10 LA
10 RA
5 LL
5 RL

Why didn't ALL the JVN get the same structure quirks?

Why can't they be armor quirks instead?

The urban mech is much smaller and gets the armor of a medium mech, I know this is because of the stupidly low engine cap but you can't go very fast in a JVN and still carry decent weaponry.


The same thing is happening with the Jenners, the Oxide has major durability quirks while the rest only have 11 CT structure.



Can we get someone from the balance team to NOT nerf the heroes and instead give the other variants the same amount of quirks?

[N0ni]

Javelin hero gets more defensive quirks to make up for the fact it doesn't have offensive quirks. The 10P doesn't get offensive quirks because it has more missile hardpoints than the 10N.

Oxide gets more durability quirks because it has less mobility than all the other Jenners.

[Xetelian]

N0ni, on 17 December 2017 - 01:34 AM, said:

Javelin hero gets more defensive quirks to make up for the fact it doesn't have offensive quirks. The 10P doesn't get offensive quirks because it has more missile hardpoints than the 10N.

Oxide gets more durability quirks because it has less mobility than all the other Jenners.

Well I'm sure the 5% LRM spread quirk will go to great use on a 30 ton Innersphere mech.

The WLF 2 has 11 armor on its CT 11 RT 11 LT 8LL 8RL and 5 more tons and 6 energy hard points.

Maybe they can hire a new guy to come along and balance these things.

[N0ni]

There isn't really much that can be done for Wolfhounds since they all either have 5 or 6 energy.

The only reason why you see the 2 used most often is the -5% generic energy heat. -10% laser duration of the 1A doesn't mean anything since you can get that with skill tree in addition to more heat reduction on the 2. Even the ECM of Grinner is more preferable because again, you can get laser duration with nodes.

Instead of having the same quirks for everything they tried to make them different so that you wouldn't just auto-sell everything but one or two variants.

[Jackal Noble]

First of all. Stop using the walking armored fortress that is the urbie as the metric. It's an abomination.
Second, have you met the Jenner IIC hero? It's the most useless mech in the game, currently (thanks machine gun nerfs/C-ERLL, for further putting this mech in the dredge heap).

Finally, the Javelin is a beast of a 30 ton mech. It runs XL just fancy, and does work. It has excellent hitboxes second only to the Assassin and only pales in comparison in it's role as an srm fast striker next to the Oxide (35t), and Assassin (40t). That's about it. The 10p with 6 srm2s just wrecks and will 1v1 the cheetah, adder, kitfox, jennerIIC etc. The 10n with 4srm4s is a lot of fun and really catches players off guard before they know what is going on.


Please re-evaluate the mechs in this game before you start piquing for buffs to ones that don't need them.

[N0ni]

JackalBeast, on 17 December 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

Second, have you met the Jenner IIC hero? It's the most useless mech in the game, currently (thanks machine gun nerfs/C-ERLL, for further putting this mech in the dredge heap).

Totally forgotten this was a thing, the Fury. Yeah, only thing it had going for it was the 2 CT cERLLs (which in a light is a terrible idea, but even worse in a walking CT) and 6 MGs of some sort. Guess this means PGI met the sales quota if both things that made it playable got nerfed LOL.

On a serious note, Fury wasn't really great on paper to begin with to be fair... this just made it worse.

[Jackal Noble]

N0ni, on 17 December 2017 - 02:32 AM, said:

Totally forgotten this was a thing, the Fury. Yeah, only thing it had going for it was the 2 CT cERLLs (which in a light is a terrible idea, but even worse in a walking CT) and 6 MGs of some sort. Guess this means PGI met the sales quota if both things that made it playable got nerfed LOL.

On a serious note, Fury wasn't really great on paper to begin with to be fair... this just made it worse.

Keep. Trying. To. Make. It. Work.
It doesn't want to work.
I admit I threw the Fury in my comment just for humor and to point out that there are worst off mechs in the lights arena.

[Curccu]

It's called Paul logics +feels like that they love some mechs and hate others and make them obsolete by not giving proper quirks.

In Javelins case it has really good hitboxes and hardpoints for at least 10P and 11A, so personally I don't think most of them really need more quirks.... Hi there has ****** hardpoints so --> quirks

[N0ni]

JackalBeast, on 17 December 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

Keep. Trying. To. Make. It. Work.
It doesn't want to work.

Yeah that's me and the Anansi lol.

Only reason i have one is a bet i made (i completely forget what it was about, it was some time before Kodiaks first dropped) that if i lost, that i would master the Anansi (after expressing i would never under any circumstance get one because of how terrible of a mech it is, but i'd rather force myself in that than the SIB). Sure enough lost the bet and tried to make it work ever since, as a congrats i got him a Locust PB (which turns out he already had one, but whatever now he has two!).

[Sjorpha]

Well Javelin is a pretty strong design in itself, it doesn't need that much in terms of quirks.

Urbanmech does need it's very strong quirks, it's not a strong light even though it has extreme durability, without the durability it would be complete trash.

[El Bandito]

Slender humanoid Light mechs rarely need big durability quirks. Assassin (honorary Light) and Wolfhound are outliers that probably need nerfs, if anything.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 December 2017 - 04:26 AM.

[N0ni]

Wolfhounds were already nerfed before in quirks and more recently in the energy department. I think it's fine where it's at.

[Pariah Devalis]

Javy is a solid mech, honestly. I would not fret about it. It is like the Spider in that it is a very narrow mech, with compressed hitboxes. In many ways, it's like a 10 ton lighter Assassin. For lights mechs, it's a pretty good robot. Can be a pain in the *** to deal with if you are armed with (A)SRM because of convergence and spread. However, the 6xSRM2 build is a beast that just keeps on punching, but even with fewer but larger launchers, its geometry provides a ton of survivability for a mech its size, and it isn't lacking for firepower.

[Airu]

I am still waiting for spider 5v quirk buffs...
Imo, Javelin does not play like wolfhound and more like spider, once you get the attention it is time to fade away.

[Curccu]

Airu, on 17 December 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

I am still waiting for spider 5v quirk buffs...
Imo, Javelin does not play like wolfhound and more like spider, once you get the attention it is time to fade away.

Yep bit like spider except 2-3x firepower

[SuperMCDad]

Javelins are my light of choice, and I find the durability to be just fine (especially after skilling them up). Mine run at ~150kph+ after speed tweak, and you just need to keep movin'. I would be loathe to reduce the engines to try to fit more firepower. Speed is life.

Of course, you can eat a dual gauss and explode, but that's pretty much any light (Urbie excluded).

I also find the Hi There to be probably the least likeable of them, mainly because you have weapon arms, and therefore can't strip them. I run mine with 2 SRM4 and 4SPL, and it still does the work, but doesn't feel as strong as the others. The arms feel vulnerable, but having said that, it isn't that often that you actually lose them before dying.

The 10F with quad MPL, and 11A with 7 ML are pretty good, although I probably prefer the SRM bombers due to the lack of face time (or should that be back time?).

I'm sure others can attest to how annoying it is to have a Javelin harassing your rear and flank. I certainly seem to attract some squirrel chasers, which is a worthwhile endeavour in and of itself. It's great to find an out of position Kodiak or supernova though, and see how many volleys of SRM's to the back it takes to make them fall over.

The other thing I would mention, is the rarity. I hardly ever see anyone bringing them to QP. I don't know whether that is to do with a perceived weakness to the design, or that people don't gel with the play style. I think they definitely have their place among the IS lights.

Edited by SuperMCDad, 17 December 2017 - 05:02 PM.

[Xetelian]

I think the WLF and UM have the right idea and their durability quirks should be all over the other mechs too.

Light mechs have it rough, 5 structure is minuscule and is barely one medium laser's burn.


I think if all lights had UM level durability they would be played more than 5% of the queue.

Don't get me wrong, I've had amazing games in light mechs, I just also take them apart very easily in anything else.


I also have rarely seen JVN since its release, I don't think 'perceived weakness' is a real reason for no one wanting to pilot that 30 ton mech. I see way more KFX and ADR than I do JVN.


The JVN has less accel than a JR7 and ACH.

Less turn rate and everything.

Edited by Xetelian, 17 December 2017 - 07:00 PM.

[JC Daxion]

N0ni, on 17 December 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

There isn't really much that can be done for Wolfhounds since they all either have 5 or 6 energy.

The only reason why you see the 2 used most often is the -5% generic energy heat. -10% laser duration of the 1A doesn't mean anything since you can get that with skill tree in addition to more heat reduction on the 2. Even the ECM of Grinner is more preferable because again, you can get laser duration with nodes.

Instead of having the same quirks for everything they tried to make them different so that you wouldn't just auto-sell everything but one or two variants.

But doesn't the Skill tree nodes and mech quirks stack? that makes for a quick fire ML right?

[FupDup]

JC Daxion, on 17 December 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

But doesn't the Skill tree nodes and mech quirks stack? that makes for a quick fire ML right?

They do stack, yes, but stuff like heat, duration, or range are generally more valuable than cooldown for lasers.

Edited by FupDup, 17 December 2017 - 08:00 PM.

[N0ni]

JC Daxion, on 17 December 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

But doesn't the Skill tree nodes and mech quirks stack? that makes for a quick fire ML right?

Yes it stacks, but it's better to have heat reduction than duration since MLs are quick anyway. Which makes the 2 the better choice since you get more heat reduction for the same duration as the base quirk of the 1A.