78 replies to this topic

[xX PUG Xx]

Johnathan Tanner, on 08 January 2018 - 06:03 AM, said:

The second you brought up a match maker you lost me ands the vast majority of faction players.

What new players need to do is get in TS, Join a unit, And spend several years in said unit learning to play the game. Then you will be able to fight effectively. Instead of screaming for a safe space.

I don't think that was what he meant and I certainly don't think he needs a "safe place" to play in, he's easily as good as I am and I don't shy from a fight: if I know him and his intention then what he means is there should be segregation for the "FNG's" and the "Veterans" simply for the longevity of the mode and by extension the game. I agree with you that players should be looking for training but there is a huge number of entrenched players that simply won't, that's where my "tiered" match making suggestion came from with the varied group sizes.

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 08 January 2018 - 06:18 AM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

xX PUG Xx, on 08 January 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

I don't think that was what he mean and I certainly don't think he needs a "safe place" to play in, he's easily as good as I am and I don't shy from a fight: if I know him and his intention then what he means is there should be segregation for the "FNG's" and the "Veterans" simply for the longevity of the mode and by extension the game. I agree with you that players should be looking for training but there is a huge number of entrenched players that simply won't, that's where my "tiered" match making suggestion came from with the varied group sizes.

Separating new players from veterans will not save the mode. It will hasten its demise. The veterans teach the young. Been that way for more than 1000 years in pretty much everything. Bad units SHOULD go up against units like kcom and EVIL. If for no other reason than so they can actually see what good looks like.

[C E Dwyer]

MeHowDude, on 27 December 2017 - 05:38 AM, said:

So the core of the game (faction play) has been abandoned, and now they are trying to make mwo an e-sport game like counter strike through solaris and quick play. What are they thinking? no competitive player in his/her right mind would decide to play mwo on a competitive level; additionally, the majority of the player base of battletech or MechWarrior series are not interested in competitive gameplay (now mwo is just "downgraded version of csgo"). And the saddest thing is that the mwo animation is not even close to MechWarrior 4, it still feels like alpha stage . No point of beating a dead horse. Its time to move back to MechWarrior living legends and MegaMek.

You forgot the, E-Gamers that are not good enough to win championships in trendy games, that crave silverware.

[xX PUG Xx]

Johnathan Tanner, on 08 January 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:

Separating new players from veterans will not save the mode. It will hasten its demise. The veterans teach the young. Been that way for more than 1000 years in pretty much everything. Bad units SHOULD go up against units like kcom and EVIL. If for no other reason than so they can actually see what good looks like.

I can certainly see the merits in it, hell I learnt most of what I know from playing Ph.1 and 2 almost exclusively by myself because the units I was in mainly didn't want to play Fp for that very reason. I lost count of the number of times I faced NKVA, 228, PHL, KCOM when I was dropping solo. I made sure to try and learn something from each encounter and I like to think I have improved because of it. (I still YOLO at times lol).

The question is: How many units are out there now that are capable of training those players?

[Johnathan Tanner]

Cathy, on 08 January 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

You forgot the, E-Gamers that are not good enough to win championships in trendy games, that crave silverware.

Russ Bollocks is your new god. Buy mech packs in his name and he will reward you with the sacred words."Soonish" on twitter and all will be well.

[C E Dwyer]

xX PUG Xx, on 08 January 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

I don't think that was what he meant and I certainly don't think he needs a "safe place" to play in, he's easily as good as I am and I don't shy from a fight: if I know him and his intention then what he means is there should be segregation for the "FNG's" and the "Veterans" simply for the longevity of the mode and by extension the game. I agree with you that players should be looking for training but there is a huge number of entrenched players that simply won't, that's where my "tiered" match making suggestion came from with the varied group sizes.

Johnathan Tanner, on 08 January 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:

Separating new players from veterans will not save the mode. It will hasten its demise. The veterans teach the young. Been that way for more than 1000 years in pretty much everything. Bad units SHOULD go up against units like kcom and EVIL. If for no other reason than so they can actually see what good looks like.

I get both these points of view.

The issue with F.W without the bribes is there is no reason to play it, aggravated by a lack of population to make even QP match maker work well.

Solaris I could see quite easily making F.W extinct, without event bribes and what comes with it, and damaging the core of the Q.P game if it's popular enough.

If it's not popular, except with a fringe section of players in what is already a game with a low population, it's a complete waste of time and money.

Johnathan Tanner, on 08 January 2018 - 06:39 AM, said:

Russ Bollocks is your new god. Buy mech packs in his name and he will reward you with the sacred words."Soonish" on twitter and all will be well.

Russ Bollocks for President !

[Johnathan Tanner]

xX PUG Xx, on 08 January 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

I can certainly see the merits in it, hell I learnt most of what I know from playing Ph.1 and 2 almost exclusively by myself because the units I was in mainly didn't want to play Fp for that very reason. I lost count of the number of times I faced NKVA, 228, PHL, KCOM when I was dropping solo. I made sure to try and learn something from each encounter and I like to think I have improved because of it. (I still YOLO at times lol).

The question is: How many units are out there now that are capable of training those players?

Not many. The so called S-tier units are full of salty *** holes and cocky newcomers who dont want to take any drop time away explaining why LRMS are bad to the same guy for 4 years.

The old so called starter units are mostly dead because of the bukkkit, Yes I know it weird but some people played this mode to fight for THEIR faction, And no other. HHOD CGBI are the only ones I can think of that still have any staying power left since FRR is truly dead (RIP STORM TROOPERS.

When once every single faction had a group that could help someone. IDK PUG we are literally at the end of our rope as a mode. I do know that the second you stop developing an online game to make another game. The online game will start to die.

[Johnathan Tanner]

Cathy, on 08 January 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

Solaris I could see quite easily making F.W extinct, without event bribes and what comes with it, and damaging the core of the Q.P game if it's popular enough.

Oh no it wont.(I know its weird but some of us are super space rich and only still play for playing with friends and the challenge of fighting other units ). Solaris is going to be a disaster for pgi e-peen warrior online. The skill gap in this game is soo large it will be dead with 2 months at the most.

The tier match maker **** story will be reveled for the lye that it is. The salt and hackusations will flow as never before. It will be glorious!

And after that it will be deader than comp que. unless they up the bribery game to 11 and give out cbills like a 3k winning FP match.

[McGoat]

Johnathan Tanner, on 08 January 2018 - 07:05 AM, said:

Oh no it wont.(I know its weird but some of us are super space rich and only still play for playing with friends and the challenge of fighting other units ).

This.
(not space rich, though)

Annnnnd this

Johnathan Tanner, on 08 January 2018 - 07:05 AM, said:

Solaris is going to be a disaster for pgi e-peen warrior online. The skill gap in this game is soo large it will be dead with 2 months at the most.
The tier match maker **** story will be reveled for the lye that it is. The salt and hackusations will flow as never before. It will be glorious!

There is such a large part of the population that have a deep rooted belief that they're in the top "X" percentages of the game, that when they play against people that are actually good they cannot handle the notion of being beaten. 1v1/2v2 will simply highlight just how bad some of these folks are, and they won't like it. I have been in matches where "good" teams get hammered by BCMC or EVIL and all kinds of salt just ******* flows. You make it even 2v2 and these same people will not like what they see in the mirror, at all.

It doesn't matter, though. We're getting Solaris. FP/CW is being ignored. QP will continue to be the bastion of MW:O (where some of the dumbest **** imaginable in a team game happens). Russ will only use twater to communicate.
Same ****, different thread.

Edited by McGoat, 08 January 2018 - 07:25 AM.

[xX PUG Xx]

How long will it be before the same people that are unwilling or unable to build a suitable drop deck for FP get hammered into the dust by "META tryhards" in Solaris and come to the forums crying for it to be a Stock Only mode? I agree that Solaris will most likely draw a large boost in the population..... for a few weeks while it's shiny and new, then the reality of the fact that QP and FP builds are not optimal will start to settle in. If the Solaris crowd want to be competitive and have any chance of having "fun", you know winning more than losing, they will have to spend CBills and Skill Points on changing up builds or buying 'Mechs specifically to play Solaris.

For Faction Play / Community Warfare / Succession Wars / FedCom Civil War to be successful, Quick Play and Faction Play need to be part of the same thing. Certainly NOT what we have at the moment but the seperation needs to be removed, even if this means scrubbing all previous LP/RP rewards, Leaderboard positions, planetary histories and even the units themselves. I would rather see the board swept clean and a completely fresh start than see the game limp along until all that's left is Quick Play and the rinse'n'repeat gameplay every 3-7 minutes but then again I've done over 16 thousand drops since 2012 and not much happens that suprises me in QP anymore...... the same stoopid **** happens now as it did 5 years ago ;-)

PGI, we now have Solaris for the solo players and I hope it is a success but you really need to get stuck into FP with a direction, drive and enthusiasm to make it work and fullfil the dreams of all us BattleTech / MechWarrior addicts or we will end up with a ghost town and empty servers once again.

(I know the chances of someone at PGI reading this, let alone paying any head to a droaning Scotsman, is slim but I can hope)

[QueenBlade]

When PGI decides to finally follow their own message:



Faction Play will get better in not only training better pilots, but make the game mode more immersive, exciting to play in, and bring back units that have stopped playing the mode.

Solaris will do this for the smaller groups. Units will also splinter into smaller groups of players to concentrate on the mode. It will have a beginning success run, but it will also spawn terrible builds that are great to be used in 1v1, 2v2 scenarios but sadly, people will also use them in QuickPlay, Group Queue, and Faction Play where the mech will be terrible.

Those same players will cry foul and demand that the modes be "fixed" so they can use their Solaris mechs with the same performances in the other modes.

Those same players need to realize that QP, GQ, FP, and now Solaris can't be the same. That their balance must be an imbalance to create new and fresh modes. You just spent eight weeks playing in MRBC doing GQ. Season is now over, time to enjoy some Solaris with new mechs and builds, because those "meta" mechs you used before are not all going to have the same success.

Once we stop trying to make everything the same, can the modes and especially the game improve.

[naterist]

Reading the advice of all these tryhards on here, it makes it seem like all you need is a unit tag and your good, not so. Getting skilled at this game is a god damn process that takes a while. On top of all that, it isnt intrinsically obvious HOW you get good, that requires a **** load of information dump, normally from a third party source.

Fix the new player experience, give them achievable and realistic things to aim for that get them better, and some kind of ingame incentive, and bring a lot of the knowledge that can only be gained from a third party source into the game client.

Without that, fw is going to continuously be in this state of stompers, and the stomped. There arent enough vets with the patience to teach the finer points of fw on a daily basis, as it is a thankless and frustrating job.

Tl;dr- pgi needs to stop relying on the community for plugging the gaps in their game design.

[Deathlike]

naterist, on 08 January 2018 - 11:59 AM, said:

Reading the advice of all these tryhards on here, it makes it seem like all you need is a unit tag and your good, not so. Getting skilled at this game is a god damn process that takes a while. On top of all that, it isnt intrinsically obvious HOW you get good, that requires a **** load of information dump, normally from a third party source.

Fix the new player experience, give them achievable and realistic things to aim for that get them better, and some kind of ingame incentive, and bring a lot of the knowledge that can only be gained from a third party source into the game client.

Without that, fw is going to continuously be in this state of stompers, and the stomped. There arent enough vets with the patience to teach the finer points of fw on a daily basis, as it is a thankless and frustrating job.

Tl;dr- pgi needs to stop relying on the community for plugging the gaps in their game design.

The problem fundamentally is that besides PGI - if you refuse to work with each other, there's no real hope in hoping for a better NPE. The NPE should foundationally require people to WANT to work together. Every single excuse to make some sort of FP/CW solo queue is an exercise of futility in wanting a fundamentally flawed gamemode that already exists for QP.

To see people whine constantly about wanting to do their own things and refuse to work with others is akin to asking for a participation trophy for being "special"... and not in a good way.

[naterist]

Deathlike, on 08 January 2018 - 05:17 PM, said:

The problem fundamentally is that besides PGI - if you refuse to work with each other, there's no real hope in hoping for a better NPE. The NPE should foundationally require people to WANT to work together. Every single excuse to make some sort of FP/CW solo queue is an exercise of futility in wanting a fundamentally flawed gamemode that already exists for QP.

To see people whine constantly about wanting to do their own things and refuse to work with others is akin to asking for a participation trophy for being "special"... and not in a good way.

A) didnt even suggest a solo que

if thats what it takes to improve the new player experience than im all for it, idc. the point of a solo que has always been to give people a stepping stone to getting good enough for a mixed/group fw que. if theres another way to implement a stepping stone then im all about that life.

[BearFlag]

Skip this paragraph; it's a big sigh. Haven't played much the last few months. This is contrast to about 2.75 years of playing almost every day. I left not in disgust. I love the game. I hate the game. I left in disappointment that FW did not evolve. QP is fun, but there needed to be a "universe." I joined the forum that January after CW went public (in December). I thought, before coming to know PGI, that improvement, evolution, depth were just on the horizon.

=======

We are far beyond the immersion hopes. Nearly all require development investments that PGi will not make. This would have been the real money-maker, but the public release revealed a development philosophy that lacked that vision.

It's late in the game, so to speak. If you really want to make suggestions to PGI, you need to speak their language. Easy, low investment. To do this...

1) Choose a direction consistent with low investment. I would argue that "immersion" is high investment (unfortunately) and that low participation is more approachable.

2) Include players with development experience to gauge the demands of any suggestion. I've worked in C a lot, not so much C++ and not at all in Cryengine. Still, when someone suggests something, I have a rough idea of what they're asking of a small shop like PGI.

3) Find the low hanging fruits. There have been tons of great ideas in this forum. They cover the full range of the FW experience (or lack thereof). Some rate impossible in labor terms, others more possible. We need to find the very easiest, the cheapest, the quickest. The main goal, IMO, is to boost participation and make FW a mode worthy of further investment. We need to make easy fixes to a troubled game mode just to project it again on PGI's radar.

It's a tall order this late. But I believe participation rates are key to getting PGI's attention and low investment the key to making small, but critical,changes.

If someone wants to take the lead on this, I'm willing to participate. Find a few tech guys to "Supreme Court" what is doable and not and put together a graded list for PGI.

[Davegt27]

good ideas BearFlag

[Black Ivan]

Perhaps it wuld be better to write Russ on Twitter about the concerns for FW than the endless debate here. Nobody from PGI has ever replied nor cared for what is posted on the forum. They only react if the get enough preorder chanceles (loosin oney) or Twitter pushes

[50 50]

@BearFlag
Sounds good.

At the moment, based on the poll I started, the three biggest points for people are:

• Emphasis on teamwork
  
• The hope of more depth
  
• Using drop decks

Working as a team isn't something we can really program as it comes down to player co-operation and willingness. However, we can create features that encourage it and that might be something that can be looked at at the group level.


It does tie in with adding more depth to the mode but we need to consider that there is several levels of depth in Faction Play.
We have depth that could be improved at the Faction Level by adding values to each of the factions which define and affect the players that belong to them over the long term.
There is depth at the group level that can be dynamic and influence the players in the group as well as impact the factions.
Then we have depth at the player level that defines and shapes our experience in the game.
Drop decks link in with these aspects as it gives us a chance to make decisions and plan for our drops. Setting up drop decks to work well with other members in our group encourages team work and therefore improves our experience. They have also allowed for the possibility of longer and more engaging battles.

Players are also keen on:

• Longer battles.
  
• Fighting for their faction.
  
• Siege mode/maps.

My personal feeling is that if we look at adding some more depth to a few areas, even if they are not overly complex features, that it will immediately improve other aspects that we can then look at in more detail.


However, one change inevitably affects something else which must then be altered for it to work and it can snow ball easily.

I've talked about trying to use the modes as missions and how the drop decks could be used differently to create more of a campaign feel for players. This is a suggestion aimed at improving the depth at the group level and needs a fair bit of rewiring.

What I feel would make the most impact right now is to look at the factions. This means also looking at the design of the map and in turn the match maker and groups.

I'm not a programmer but I have got experience in rules design, testing and support and because I love working through these ideas and details and will happily start up a thread to manage and see how far we get. How does that sound?

Edited by 50 50, 09 January 2018 - 12:51 AM.

[Davegt27]

so getting back to this thread
a few things I would like to see or change

1) teams that are 8 man or above would get matched against each other
this would be regardless if they are clan or IS

so if there is two 8 man clan teams in the queue then they would fight

2)I want to see what teams and how many is in the queue so teams of 6 or greater will queue up
they will be identified by there unit tags so you can choose to fight them or not