10 replies to this topic

[IL MECHWARRIOR]

base heat values for all cannons

2 type= 0.6
5 type= 1.2
10 type= 2.0
20 type= 4.0


HOW TO CREATE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CANNONS AND MAKE THEM ALL VIABLE.



AC: more bullet velocity and more range (role: long range poke, match with PPCS)

LBX: more damage or more crit damage, shorter range (role: short range brawl, alpha and tank, match with srms)

UAC: less bullet velocity, but half jam chance than now (role: dps farmer: stop rushes at 500-600 meters if well positioned)

[thievingmagpi]

People aren't using ballistics?

[Khobai]

GET RID OF JAMMING. GET RID OF BURSTFIRE TOO. BAD MECHANICS ARE BAD.

RAC should be for burst DPS. It should do the highest DPS but its ability to sustain DPS should be limited by magazine size. It should use a magazine based system that loads 1 ton of ammo at a time. When it runs out of ammo in the magazine it goes on cooldown to reload the magazine.

UAC should be for sustained DPS. it should work exactly like a standard AC, but fire twice as fast, do 60%-70% of the damage per shot, and have less range, and less velocity.

AC should be for sniping and have the best damage per shot, best range, and best velocity.

LBX should be for <300m brawling/sandblasting apart mechs with multiple breached armor sections. LBX is almost good it just needs slightly better damage per pellet and a better crit damage multiplier.

Edited by Khobai, 20 December 2017 - 05:01 PM.

[Bombast]

Out of curiosity, who's alt are you?

[Y E O N N E]

Bombast, on 20 December 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, who's alt are you?

D A T A from JGx.

[HammerMaster]

Remember when you had to unjam with a weapon group combo? Good times!

[ROSS-128]

Hmm, aside from the issue of RACs just being garbage and UACs basically having a 100% jam rate for me, I see two major issues that hold ballistics back.

1: Lasers get to ignore most of their downsides. Lasers are primarily limited by heat, but we have a doubled heat scale, and the periodic poke/twist/shoot play style that is pretty much required to spread damage effectively gives them plenty of time to cool down on top of that. Ballistics are primarily limited by weight and crit slots, neither of which are expanded in MWO.

2: Ballistics rely on an increased rate of fire to keep up with MWO's armor scale, where as lasers just fire in larger volleys due to the aforementioned heat scale. Anything smaller than an AC/10 cannot really utilize its full rate of fire while also torso twisting, its cooldown is just too short. This makes small ballistics require a lot of face time to do damage, which in MWO gets you killed.

Maybe we should just straight up double how much damage ballistics do per shot, but cut their RoF in half, to make them more torso-twist friendly? It'd be a bit odd that an AC/20 is really more of an AC/40, but really with the doubled armor 40 MWO damage is basically 20 BT damage anyway. They'd have the same DPS overall, be slightly more heat efficient (not that they have any heat problems in the first place), their first shot would just be a little more front-loaded and you'd have more time to torso-twist between shots.

[Grus]

Bombast, on 20 December 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, who's alt are you?

Carl Vickers maybe?

I don't know why everyone keeps giving rac's the shaft...

I keep having good games with them.

[Khobai]

the problem with ballistics is face time and all the crappy mechanics like jamming and burstfire

lasers do more way damage in way less face time. lasers also never have to worry about jamming.

so to balance ballistics vs lasers better there needs to be a lower damage limit on laser vomit alphas. which means linking large and medium lasers for ghost heat.

and the crappy mechanics for autocannons like jamming need to be removed. autocannons already have too many downsides compared to lasers as is, they dont need to be plagued by bad RNG mechanics too.

Edited by Khobai, 20 December 2017 - 08:09 PM.

[Yosharian]

Khobai, on 20 December 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

the problem with ballistics is face time and all the crappy mechanics like jamming and burstfire

lasers do more damage in less face time

so to balance ballistics vs lasers better there needs to be a lower damage limit on laser vomit alphas

which means linking large and medium lasers for ghost heat

Face time? Ballistics fire instantly, where's the face time?

Ballistics are harder to use because you need to take time to line up your shot. I mean, unless your target is stationary.

Maybe that's what you meant by face time?

[Khobai]

Quote

Face time? Ballistics fire instantly, where's the face time?

because a ballistic weapon has to fire multiple times to do the same damage laser vomit can do in one alpha.

that means MORE face time.

For an AC20 to do the same 60 damage as laser vomit, it has to fire 3 times. thats at least 6 seconds of exposure time (assuming you walk back into cover between each shot). compared to 2 seconds for laser vomit using CERMLs and heavy large lasers.

because ghost heat doesnt let you fire two AC20s at once, but you can fire 4-6 CERML and 2 CHLL without ghost heat.

the AC20 is just one example, but its the same with all autocannons. to do the same damage as a single laser vomit alpha, you have to give up way more facetime.

another example, say you have three CUAC5s (theyre ghost heat limited at 3)... in order to do 70 damage you need to give up about 6 seconds of facetime. but for laser vomit to do 70 damage only requires about 2 seconds of facetime.

lasers do massive damage in a much shorter exposure window than autocannons.

Edited by Khobai, 20 December 2017 - 08:20 PM.