19 replies to this topic

[lazorbeamz]

So basically i think i have found a niche for these weapons. Their whole point is really low heat requirements to shoot. Only 2 instead of 2.75 for IS AC10. These cannons are super heat effective and are unique in this regard.

Marauder II C-C 4 c-er-large laser, 2 c-ac10 stock engine 16 DHS

you shoot lasers 3-4 times, then become heat capped and go on with your cannons which will never ever overheat you. in fact you regenerate heat while shooting them and can use lasers very soon.

The cannons themselves provide 3.7 DPS each. If you have two, you basically have 7.4 dps for free with no heat.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 22 December 2017 - 06:59 AM.

[Exard3k]

seen that on smurfys already but I never was a fan of C-ACs. Clan mechs usually have enough DHS so that increased heat from UAC10s isnt that of a drawback. But I may give it a try on my HGN IIC-C that is really low on DHS and UACs rack up heat quite quickly.

Also keep in mind that you double the heat with double tapping. Not doing so is considerably cooler, may be a psychological effect on the C-ACs as well.


edit: Doesn't work for my mechs....most of my 2x UAC10 builds have them in the arm (Nanuq+HGN-IIC) and that extra slot doesnt fit into the arms.

Edited by Exard3k, 22 December 2017 - 08:34 AM.

[Shadowomega1]

Nope, as Exard said clan DHS can usually cover the extra heat. However, cACs are both larger and heavier than the cUAC so don't expect to fit them on the HGN II-C right arm. If you are avoiding double tapping their quite cool, but that burst extra burst rocks enemy mechs if you space the bursts just right.

[Mystere]

There is no such thing as a "Clan AC". <shrugs>

[Simbacca]

Mystere, on 22 December 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

There is no such thing as a "Clan AC". <shrugs>

As I understand it the splitting of Clan AC and LBX was due to some coding problems - about switching between AC and LBX ammo for weapon.

[sycocys]

Clan Uac10s are nice, don't see the point of not having the option to double tap and allotting more slots and tonnage to having less damage potential.

I'd question the value of using ER-LL with ac10, doesn't seem like a great combination given all the facetime you have to put forth - especially if you weren't using the ac's while you were on target with your lightsabers.

[lazorbeamz]

Exard3k, on 22 December 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

seen that on smurfys already but I never was a fan of C-ACs. Clan mechs usually have enough DHS so that increased heat from UAC10s isnt that of a drawback. But I may give it a try on my HGN IIC-C that is really low on DHS and UACs rack up heat quite quickly.

Also keep in mind that you double the heat with double tapping. Not doing so is considerably cooler, may be a psychological effect on the C-ACs as well.


edit: Doesn't work for my mechs....most of my 2x UAC10 builds have them in the arm (Nanuq+HGN-IIC) and that extra slot doesnt fit into the arms.

If you carefully do the math, clan UAC 10 give you ~ 25% more dps and ~85% more alpha on average at the cost of extra 120% heat per second. Compared to c-ac10. That with jams included.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 22 December 2017 - 10:34 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

This thread is going places.
CAC10 and it's CAC brethren suck. I only on the odd occasion see someone do well with them on an eclectic build. Granted with the most recent buff to the velocities for the 10s (from 950m/s to 1100m/s) and the 5s (1100 up to 1300), they are more viable than they were before. That said, clan ballistics are semi atrocious unless boated due to the gapping in the projectiles, which makes them less than ideal when dealing with a lateral moving engagement. Not saying its not workable, just not super effective. Unless boated lol.
OPs build- ummm not really sure about that build. Like at all, but whatever floats your boat. I might even give it a RI in testing grounds just for shits and giggles, but I would never take it in a match, esp with where C-ERLLs are now.

[FireStoat]

I've tested Clan AC, UAC, and LBX 10's on a MAD IIC (D) as a primary weapon numerous times and came to a conclusion. Even with the jam chance, the UAC's simply deliver more damage over the course of a match. I really wanted the truth to be otherwise but it's just how it appeared to me, match after match.

Clan autocannon need two things that would nudge them into being more competitive. First, they need to receive a mech's quirks for LBX range and cooldown reduction. There are a few that grant this but Clan AC do not get them even though they are supposed to emulate an LBX firing slug ammo. The second thing Clan AC need is one shell removed from their fired burst and the damage adjusted for the shell reduction. Instead of 4 shells for an AC 20, 3 would be fired, etc.

Even these minimal changes would leave them inferior to Uac's still, but it would be a start. For what it's worth, I DID mention the LBX quirk issue to Chris in a NGNG stream when he was fielding questions. The answer I got was "Clan AC are in the game for the purpose of new players that want a non jamming UAC to use when they haven't learned restraint with double tapping."

And that was it. It's like the whole point I was trying to explain went flying over his head.

Edited by FireStoat, 22 December 2017 - 11:59 AM.

[Mole]

We talking about regular ACs or UACs? Because dual UAC/10s are a pretty beastly loadout on a number of 'mechs. If we're talking about regular ACs, I see no reason to bring a regular AC when the UAC of the same caliber has the same firing pattern (bursts instead of single slug), has the same heat per shot, weighs the same, but has a smaller slot requirement. The clan UAC/10 is in every way shape and form superior to the clan AC/10. It can double your DPS if you're brave enough to double-tap with it, and if you want something that actually functions like a regular AC/10 then just don't double-tap. Press and hold if you want it to fire like a regular AC/10. Double-tap if you want it to fire like a UAC and risk jamming.

TL;DR When speaking in the context of clans, the UAC/10 functions identically to the AC/10 if you don't double-tap and does so for one slot less. There is no reason to bring an Clan AC/10 over a Clan UAC/10 unless you just cannot achieve proper trigger discipline.

Edited by Mole, 22 December 2017 - 12:33 PM.

[Xavori]

Mystere, on 22 December 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

There is no such thing as a "Clan AC". <shrugs>

Ya.

There was also never a sequel to Highlander, ******* never covered American Pie, and nobody every put pumpkin spice in a latte.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

As I understand it the splitting of Clan AC and LBX was due to some coding problems - about switching between AC and LBX ammo for weapon.

It was originally a placeholder. The only reason it continues to exist is removing them would imply Paul could never give LB-X their proper alt-fire mode to begin with.

Of course, given the engine they've stated they can't, leaving those rejects still in use. Get a UAC and all the benefits plus the ability to double tap, instead.

[Khobai]

Im 100% convinced its possible to have LBX switch between firing cluster rounds and slug rounds

PGI obviously knows how to make equipment switch between two different states... that already exists with equipment like ECM or AMS.

If ECM can switch between counter and disrupt
and if AMS can switch between being on and off
then LBX can switch between two states as well: cluster and slug. using a shared ammo type for both fire modes

they could just make LBX switch between two states... one that uses the LBX profile and one that uses the CAC profile. but there wouldnt be ammo switching, it would all use LBX ammo.

and thats an easy workaround...

Edited by Khobai, 22 December 2017 - 02:20 PM.

[Mole]

Xavori, on 22 December 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

Ya.

There was also never a sequel to Highlander, ******* never covered American Pie, and nobody every put pumpkin spice in a latte.

What he means is that in lore the clans had, by the time of their invasions, completely phased out contemporary autocannon technology and all of their autocannons were either LB-X or Ultra autocannons while the Inner Sphere still utilized basic Autocannons. The only reason the Clans have regular ACs in MWO is because PGI has apparently lost the coding ability to make LB-X autocannons switch from pellet to slug ammunition, which is a feature that LB-X cannons had in lore. It's really a useless bandaid, but it is a bandaid nonetheless.

[Shadowomega1]

Mole, on 22 December 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

What he means is that in lore the clans had, by the time of their invasions, completely phased out contemporary autocannon technology and all of their autocannons were either LB-X or Ultra autocannons while the Inner Sphere still utilized basic Autocannons. The only reason the Clans have regular ACs in MWO is because PGI has apparently lost the coding ability to make LB-X autocannons switch from pellet to slug ammunition, which is a feature that LB-X cannons had in lore. It's really a useless bandaid, but it is a bandaid nonetheless.

Yet those cAC fires in bursts like cUACs.

FireStoat, on 22 December 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Even these minimal changes would leave them inferior to Uac's still, but it would be a start. For what it's worth, I DID mention the LBX quirk issue to Chris in a NGNG stream when he was fielding questions. The answer I got was "Clan AC are in the game for the purpose of new players that want a non jamming UAC to use when they haven't learned restraint with double tapping."

And that was it. It's like the whole point I was trying to explain went flying over his head.

Well then the issue remains that the cAC's are larger and heavier then their cUAC variants.

As for improving UACs both IS and clan would be to reduce the delay between shots in the bursts.

Edited by Shadowomega1, 22 December 2017 - 02:40 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Promessa, on 22 December 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

I've used 4 on a Kodiak for low heat and almost no gh penalty. Supplemented with 4 er meds when I'm cool and need some extra punch. It's not awful. The velocity is pretty good. I think it's higher with ac's, and with tcs and 15% from trees, plus recent-ish buffs, they are like hitscan.

Now that's a solid idea for a build. Esp for those of us that don't lean on macros. " cuz it's more funthat way!" pssshhh hmmk.

[Grus]

Title;
I can confirm people use c/uac10...

[panzer1b]

Ive used them on a couple mechs before, albeit almost always they were on purely for fun builds (as in seeing what can be done with a weapon thats normally not viable). The ONE exception to this is the AC2 which gets a minor but noticeable range boost compared to the regular model, allowing full damage at over 1km. Its rare (and ERLL boats tend to overshadow them at ranges of 1km or so) but sometimes when im not in the mood for constant meta trash and just wanna derp around ill bring say a quad cAC2 boat to FW on a sniper map and it can be made to work well. AC5s are in a similar category since they also get more range (beats GRs for that matter), but with such low velocity its hard to utilize that range and thus arent worth the extra slot requirement.

Only thing that would make me even consider ACs on clan is if they dropped the pellet count by 1 for every gun but the AC2 (having 0 shots per shot would make it somewhat hard to damage anyone with it no ). That would mean that the AC5s are PPFLD (and would give me a real reason to consider them on mechs), the AC10s would spread less, and the AC20 would still suck but a hair less then it does now. Aside from that, i fail to see ANY good reason to use them outside of the previously mentioned niche range from teh AC2 or AC5 vs the UAC equivalents (and you get a teeny bit less heat per shot, but in 90% of cases this is meaningless when you got 15+ DHS as pretty much every clan mech has). Aslong as they are burst, UACs are gonna remain superior in everything but ultra rare cases where you need to have the absolute maximum range or lower heat gen (2 heat for AC10 vs 3.5 for UAC10 does make a difference, but only if you are using it with lasers and thus you already got alot of DHS to cool em).

On a bit of a side note, i do have a few friends that run a quad AC10 kodiak, but thats mostly due to the fact that its alot less ghost heat problematic and doesnt require macros to be consistent. It works, but purely because that mech has enough raw damage output to hose down anyone whos stupid enough to try and facetank against it. Properly timed quad UAC10 would have been far deadlier imo...

Edited by panzer1b, 22 December 2017 - 03:26 PM.

[LordNothing]

usefull cacs are the 2 the 10, and the 20. in that order. the only reason the 5 isnt useful is that its better to just take one less uac5 and more ammo. its not really viable as a single weapon. the uac versions of the 10 and 20 are better and you only use the cac for when you need less heat in your build. the 2 is useful for its crit ability and its awesome range which make it stand apart from the uac2 and the lb2.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 December 2017 - 04:24 PM.