18 replies to this topic

[arcana75]

So if it's closed there's a 20% damage reduction. Does that mean if the door is always closed that mech's location has a 20% damage reduction enhancement?

If so, is it already factored in when we look at the mech's armour values in Mech Lab?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

arcana75, on 23 December 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

So if it's closed there's a 20% damage reduction. Does that mean if the door is always closed that mech's location has a 20% damage reduction enhancement?

If so, is it already factored in when we look at the mech's armour values in Mech Lab?

It isn't factored into anything in the UI. If the door is closed you have a 20% damage reduction on the section, only time it doesn't give the bonus is when its open, I've not had thorough tests to see if it still gives you the reduction in the split second that it takes for them to open then fire a shot then close again if you have them set to closed.

Also the King Crab and Crab have a 10% damage reduction for their claw doors but have no delay in firing.

[arcana75]

Dakota1000, on 23 December 2017 - 11:37 PM, said:

It isn't factored into anything in the UI. If the door is closed you have a 20% damage reduction on the section, only time it doesn't give the bonus is when its open, I've not had thorough tests to see if it still gives you the reduction in the split second that it takes for them to open then fire a shot then close again if you have them set to closed.

Also the King Crab and Crab have a 10% damage reduction for their claw doors but have no delay in firing.

Thanks, so for example the Kintaro 18's CT has a missile bay door. This means it has a 20% damage reduction aka 20% armour bonus to its CT, and it's not shown in the Mech Lab.

It also validates my not using the LT of the Hellspawn.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

arcana75, on 24 December 2017 - 12:23 AM, said:

Thanks, so for example the Kintaro 18's CT has a missile bay door. This means it has a 20% damage reduction aka 20% armour bonus to its CT, and it's not shown in the Mech Lab.

It also validates my not using the LT of the Hellspawn.

Yep, everyone completely underestimates a kintaro, but users of them often come to realize it doesn't die easy from CT loss. It really could be worth taking a look into, most people never really think about the few mechs with bay doors on torso sections.

[jjm1]

I thought they removed this, then added it back just for the catapult.

It would require digging through old patch notes in sequence to piece together the rules to this game, and even then, someone in the community has to somehow test it works as described...

[arcana75]

Dakota1000, on 24 December 2017 - 01:15 AM, said:

Yep, everyone completely underestimates a kintaro, but users of them often come to realize it doesn't die easy from CT loss. It really could be worth taking a look into, most people never really think about the few mechs with bay doors on torso sections.

Not sure if it's really underestimated though as it's not exactly the best of medium mechs. I find its profile too big for a medium, like the Griffin.

This whole bonus armour thing leads to another thing: multiplicative vs cumulative bonus from armour skill nodes combined with missile bay door damage reduction bonus..

[C E Dwyer]

Do Missile bay doors still give a damage reduction.

I thought it was removed when modular weapons arrived.

[Khobai]

Quote

Do Missile bay doors still give a damage reduction.

I thought it was removed when modular weapons arrived.

they should still give damage reduction

but most likely it doesnt work

and I honestly wouldnt be surprised if missile doors actually made you take more damage

someone should probably test it...

this is the same company that gave us the fast fire skill that slowed rate of fire by 5% afterall

and it took them MONTHS to fix it...

Edited by Khobai, 24 December 2017 - 02:13 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

It shows the bonus in smurfy and smurfy takes its data straight from the game files. Its always nice to test it out though.

[Mcgral18]

It used to be straight up 10% damage reduction

It took 3 AC20s and 2 isSLs to destroy the Catapults arm, pre quirk on old Forest Colony testing grounds
Last time I tested it, straight up did nothing, exactly the quirked value and dead

Maybe a testing ground thing, maybe a removed feature
Maybe a Crit reduction instead of actual damage reduction
Who knows

[arcana75]

Dakota1000, on 24 December 2017 - 02:37 AM, said:

It shows the bonus in smurfy.

Where? I fired up Smurfy and the updated Li Song Mech Lab and both show 72 max armour in the CT, and the LSML shows the CT has a +15 armour quirk to CT. so LSML isn't adding the +15 to the base values.

Interestingly I peeked at the BSW and it looks as if the Kintaro is tankier than the Bushwacker!

[jss78]

arcana75, on 24 December 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

Where? I fired up Smurfy and the updated Li Song Mech Lab and both show 72 max armour in the CT, and the LSML shows the CT has a +15 armour quirk to CT. so LSML isn't adding the +15 to the base values.

Interestingly I peeked at the BSW and it looks as if the Kintaro is tankier than the Bushwacker!

Smurfy does show this popup in the 'mech list view, suggesting 20% damage reduction:



I have no idea if it's accurate with regards to latest patches.

[arcana75]

jss78, on 24 December 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

Smurfy does show this popup in the 'mech list view, suggesting 20% damage reduction:



I have no idea if it's accurate with regards to latest patches.

Thanks I see it now. That means the Kintaro's CT combined with its CT enhancement, is one tanky mech.

I don't know how updated Smurfy is, but it has Hellspawn and Thanatos in its DB, so I guess it's updated?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

looks like some testing must be done, I'll get a buddy and make a video on it.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Video out:



Missile bay doors are working as intended, tests done in private lobbies to avoid testing ground shenanigans.

[YueFei]

Dakota1000, on 24 December 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

Video out:



Missile bay doors are working as intended, tests done in private lobbies to avoid testing ground shenanigans.

Thanks for doing this! Perversely, doesn't this potentially dis-incentivise people from using missile hardpoint locations that have missile bay doors? That way, you could leave the bay door closed at all times for the damage reduction, whilst using your other hardpoints instead?

Or, do you use some technique to get around that and toggle the bay doors open/close manually?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

YueFei, on 24 December 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

Thanks for doing this! Perversely, doesn't this potentially dis-incentivise people from using missile hardpoint locations that have missile bay doors? That way, you could leave the bay door closed at all times for the damage reduction, whilst using your other hardpoints instead?

Or, do you use some technique to get around that and toggle the bay doors open/close manually?

It depends, due to ghost heat the missile bay doors don't really become a problem on some mechs. The Archer, for example, could run 6 ASRM6, ghost heat limit is 4, so if you have 4 launchers in the torso and 2 in the arm you can just press the fire button and the two arm guns fire instantly then the torso ones fire half a second later, avoiding ghost heat automatically for you then closing back to resume their defensive position.

Kintaro has a similar effect, as it can fire the 4 launchers from its side torso and arm then half a second later fire the srm4 in its CT if its going for 4 ASRM6 + 1 ASRM4.

Some other builds don't work with the doors as nicely, and other builds can just choose to not use their missile hardpoints at all, but I don't really see it as objectively superior to just never use the missile hardpoints there, more of a trade off.

[arcana75]

Wow thanks Dakota that's an incredible video, kinda like Mech(Myth)Busters

This so validates my Hellspawn builds, where my LT carries ammo and a case, while my MRMs are in my RA.

[Khobai]

mechs with missile doors and the locations. the mechs with only 10% reduction dont suffer the 0.5s fire delay penalty for having closed missile doors.

king crab = both arms 10%
crab = both arms 10%
catapult = both arms 20%
stalker = both arms 20%
archer = both side torsos 20%
kintaro = CT 20%
hellspawn = left torso 20%

Quote

Thanks for doing this! Perversely, doesn't this potentially dis-incentivise people from using missile hardpoint locations that have missile bay doors? That way, you could leave the bay door closed at all times for the damage reduction, whilst using your other hardpoints instead?

yes. which is why precisely why missile doors were removed off the centurion

Edited by Khobai, 24 December 2017 - 08:24 PM.