31 replies to this topic

[Gristle Missile]

I think if light guass was 9 damage, it would be good - 10 would probably be too much, maybe...but light gauss is a bit weak considering the tonnage, slots and cooldown...oh yeah and it explodes

Edited by Gristle Missile, 26 December 2017 - 12:15 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

How about this for a LGR mechanic:
No charge, but Longer Cooldown.8.5 -9 dmg.

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 26 December 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

How about this for a LGR mechanic:
No charge, but Longer Cooldown.8.5 -9 dmg.

Why are we making this complicated?

Until its rate of damage output matches closer to the standard Gauss, there is no reason to take it because of the price you pay in weight and slots. A change to 10 damage with nothing else gets us there. A change to 2.5 s cool-down with nothing else gets us there. Those are the easiest options. You can go for a mix of more damage and shorter cool-down to also get us there, too, but again: why make it complicated?

At no point do we need to mess with the charge-up. I do not want to mess with the charge-up. If I wanted to just point and click I would bring UAC/2. Or lasers.

As for the other Gauss? I'm just sick to death of being unable to bring a standard Gauss with an XL torso. So many otherwise competent builds are stupidly made infeasible simply because of the explosive nature. PGI's current choice to make the IS version marginally less explosive compared to the guaranteed explosive nature of Clan Gauss is a bad joke. One side gets to deal with a weapon that will still kill their 'Mech 90% of the time, the other gets one that causes the removal of a single side 100% of the time. Neato. Neither weapon is that good.

My proposal?

75% chance to explode for both, IS health is 3x per slot (21) and Clan is 2.5x per slot (10), IS CASE completely redirects explosion damage outside the 'Mech (hooray it's worth something now!). Boom. Done. Unless you want to start nerfing its performance, I think that's plenty fair given the 3.5 ton disadvantage.

HGauss? All it needs is a range boost to 270 meters base with the max range multiplier changed from 5x to 4x (so max range is 1080 m). Now it's still doing a respectable 19.45 damage at 450 meters stock and is worthy to compete against the likes of 2x cGauss + 2x cERLL + 4x cERML across a more useful portion of the mid-range spectrum. It won't solve the 50 kph vs 63 kph problem, but that's what the existing armor boosts and faster cycle times are for. Right now it's just borderline. Really good in QP and FP as a gate holder, outclassed in the mid-range poke. Everything is outclassed in the mid-range poke for Assaults.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 26 December 2017 - 01:05 PM.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

75% chance to explode for both, IS health is 3x per slot (21) and Clan is 2.5x per slot (10), IS CASE completely redirects explosion damage outside the 'Mech (hooray it's worth something now!). Boom. Done. Unless you want to start nerfing its performance, I think that's plenty fair given the 3.5 ton disadvantage.

I appreciate the intended goal of making Gauss not feel as punishing for the user to equip, but random explosion chance isn't the way to go. It should be a 100% chance for consistency instead of RNGesus, with health increased (which you already did) and explosion damage reduced (e.g. 8-10 for IS and 12-15 for Clan instead of 20 for both) to make it fair.

HGR and LGR should get similar treatment (i.e. the LGR sure as hell doesn't need to inflict 16 damage to its user).

I'll also criticize the specific health value you chose for the IS side. You made it about 33% more durable than the IS AC/10 that takes up the same number of slots. That's actually more health than any IS item that isn't a class-20 AC.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 26 December 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

I appreciate the intended goal of making Gauss not feel as punishing for the user to equip, but random explosion chance isn't the way to go. It should be a 100% chance for consistency instead of RNGesus, with health increased (which you already did) and explosion damage reduced (e.g. 8-10 for IS and 12-15 for Clan instead of 20 for both) to make it fair.

HGR and LGR should get similar treatment (i.e. the LGR sure as hell doesn't need to inflict 16 damage to its user).

I was going for simplicity of implementation and mechanical congruity with what's already in the game.

If I had my way, it would have a 100% chance to explode only if it gets destroyed mid-charge, else the chance is 0%. But we can't have nice things in MWO.

Either way, the point is to make the IS one hurt less when it explodes and give them the option of making it hurt not at all by paying even more slots tonnage.

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I'll also criticize the specific health value you chose for the IS side. You made it about 33% more durable than the IS AC/10 that takes up the same number of slots. That's actually more health than any IS item that isn't a class-20 AC.

From experience, the AC/10 is also overly fragile. The only guns that don't feel overly fragile are the 20-class ACs, but that's only in absolute terms. Given that they make up most of the firepower on any given 'Mech, even they feel too breakable. Unless PGI wants to lower crit chance/damage from things like MGs, they need more health.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

I was going for simplicity of implementation and mechanical congruity with what's already in the game.

If I had my way, it would have a 100% chance to explode only if it gets destroyed mid-charge, else the chance is 0%. But we can't have nice things in MWO.

Either way, the point is to make the IS one hurt less when it explodes and give them the option of making it hurt not at all by paying even more slots tonnage.

My beef with the "only explode during charge" idea is that most of the time the weapon is blown up during cooldown time anyways, effectively removing the explosion mechanic from most situations.

Mechanically speaking either of our ideas are just simple XML fixes (well, IDK about CASE but the health/explosion stuff is super easy). It's just a matter of my undying hatred of randomness when it comes to weapon effectiveness.

Yeonne Greene, on 26 December 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

From experience, the AC/10 is also overly fragile. The only guns that don't feel overly fragile are the 20-class ACs, but that's only in absolute terms. Given that they make up most of the firepower on any given 'Mech, even they feel too breakable. Unless PGI wants to lower crit chance/damage from things like MGs, they need more health.

I do wish that PGI could work on their spaghetti code to give MGs a straight-up damage increase against structure HP instead of relying on extreme item-deleting to achieve the same anti-structure DPS. Would be a lot less annoying to deal with...

[Kanil]

JackalBeast, on 26 December 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

How about this for a LGR mechanic:
No charge, but Longer Cooldown.8.5 -9 dmg.

That sounds about as useless as the current LGR. Possibly even worse, depending upon how much longer of a cooldown you want.

Just keep the charge and buff the damage high enough that it's worth using. You want a non-charge 12 ton ballistic? The AC/10 exists.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 26 December 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

My beef with the "only explode during charge" idea is that most of the time the weapon is blown up during cooldown time anyways, effectively removing the explosion mechanic from most situations.

And? It's completely player-controlled. It makes it more of an event if somebody jukes getting face-smashed because they timed their fire to coincide with where they estimated the enemy would be charging to fire. It's exciting! Worthy of many a PogChamp. I don't see any value in having Gauss explosions be a more common occurrence.

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I do wish that PGI could work on their spaghetti code to give MGs a straight-up damage increase against structure HP instead of relying on extreme item-deleting to achieve the same anti-structure DPS. Would be a lot less annoying to deal with...

Agreed.

[Khobai]

light gauss (12 tons) should be: 10 damage, 810m/1620m, 4.25+0.5s cooldown, 20 shots/ton, GH limit of 3, charge limit of 2.

heavy gauss (18 tons) should be: 22 damage, 570m/1140m, 6+1s cooldown, 6 shots/ton, GH limit of 1, charge limit of 2, and removal of reticle shake

clan gauss (12 tons) should be: 12 damage, 720m/1440m, 4.25+0.5s cooldown, 12 shots/ton, same GH and charge limit.

clan gauss should in essence be an efficient, streamlined hybrid of a light gauss and standard gauss.


and std gauss (15 tons) stays the same: 15 damage, 660m/1320m, 5.00+0.75 cooldown, 10 shots/ton, same GH and charge limit.



fixed. all gauss rifles balanced.

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Increase C-DHS hitpoints, Increase IS DHS dissipation by 5%

IS DHS should all be true double heatsinks. 33% increase in dissipation and capacity.

fixed.

ISXL should survive side torso blowout. And LFE should not suffer penalties for losing a side torso. LFE and STD engines should possibly get structure bonuses too.

also fixed.

And ISES/ISFF should give structure/armor quirks respectively. Since they take up more crit slots than their clan counterparts.

But most IS mechs should lose their free structure/armor quirks. since ISXL, ISES, and ISFF are all fixed.


Not that hard PGI I just fixed your game in a few minutes...

the only other thing we need is a completed version of energy draw to prevent huge alpha strikes.

Edited by Khobai, 26 December 2017 - 02:32 PM.

[CuriousCabbitBlue]

new poptart meta go~!

[Khobai]

hence why i gave heavy gauss a ghost heat limit of 1

ac20 has ghost heat limit of 1

why shouldnt heavy gauss? for all the same reasons