4 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

I'll just jump to the punch, the skill node system didn't actually do anything to improve balance - but it could be adjusted in a way that brings it all closer and provides a better environment from new up to comp play.

The way to do this is to require the skill nodes and consumables to take up slots and tonnage, and ultimately be able to be disabled or destroyed in the course of a match.

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I'll start with consumables - They should be 1 slot and either 1 ton items that you can equip in any open slot. Give them comparable hp to ecm or bap.

Additionally I'd add 1-3 slots in XL engines dedicated to consumables. 1 for up to 295, 2 for 300-345, 3 for 300-400 ranges. This gives you some protected slots for using xl engines, if you can put the slots in the torsos that would option up the ability for them to still be destroyed on clan mechs.

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Skill nodes - Should be tied to a computer in your cockpit. Give a limited, say 3-4 base, amount of slots + the option to upgrade the computer to get more slots for additional mech crit slots - say +2 or 3 slots per additional skill slot.

If it's possible make these slots crit-able so buffs can be disabled with lucky/good shots to the cockpit.

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What these two things do:
1. Force players to make more tactical decisions in their mech builds - arties aren't just 40k c-bills anymore, they are also taking up a slot that could be where you need ammo or a dhs to fit.

2. Use the skill tree as a soft-limit on the high alpha/over buffed builds - maybe some will disagree with me, but the game feels about the most mech-sim/balanced when running with no skill node tree buffs, placing some limits to how hard people can buff or forcing them to sacrifice in other areas to power buff would be a great thing.

3. Brings the xp gap between new players and vets as far as how well mechs can compete into a more sensible range. The skill gap will still be there, and the honed loadout vs new loadout will still have some gaps but it will be far closer if its actually manage at the loadout level.

4. All 3 of those points would make comp play better because everything would be managed towards a better base balance of mechs, the ability to not have every match be an arty/flush fest (or at least the ability to destroy them) and people having to make much more dialed in decisions in their builds to get that slight advantage over another build.

[Khobai]

consumables need to be removed

[sycocys]

Khobai, on 28 December 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

consumables need to be removed

I totally agree, but if they are to stay as PGI seems to think they should, then they need to be crit slotted items.

That one thing in itself would add a fair touch of balance to the game, just forcing players to choose to have them and sacrifice something other than just c-bills in return, and the possibility of them getting critted before use and losing 40k off your match for no purpose.

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The skill nodes part is to add a hard cap to what anyone can bring to a match. Which reduced the "battle value" difference between noded and non mechs which shouldn't be so ridiculous like the way they keep implementing the skill system. Similarly it would add in an additional "cost" in your loadout, so you could specialize to be better but in order to get to uber buffs you'd have to sacrifice in other areas.

[BTGbullseye]

sycocys, on 28 December 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

1. Force players to make more tactical decisions in their mech builds - arties aren't just 40k c-bills anymore, they are also taking up a slot that could be where you need ammo or a dhs to fit.

Artillery/Air Strikes should not take space or weight unless they are reusable. (and then it should be a version of the TAG with an extremely long cooldown and a very long global cooldown) 1-use "items" that merely require calling in a set of coordinates on the radio shouldn't take up space and weight. That said, the radio should be a separate crit item in the head, and be very easily destroyed. A UAV should use space and weight, as it is a physical item launched from your mech, but should have 3-4 uses per ton-crit, (1 crit, 1 ton) and a longer duration with WAY less ECM penetration. Cool Shots should also have mass and weight, as well as be limited to the center torso, though easily critted. (and the crit would effectively activate a half-strength coolshot upon crit, as the coolant spills over the mech on its way out)

sycocys, on 28 December 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

2. Use the skill tree as a soft-limit on the high alpha/over buffed builds - maybe some will disagree with me, but the game feels about the most mech-sim/balanced when running with no skill node tree buffs, placing some limits to how hard people can buff or forcing them to sacrifice in other areas to power buff would be a great thing.

Minmaxing has been around forever... This would not change it, merely make it harder for most people to build for their individual play style.

sycocys, on 28 December 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

3. Brings the xp gap between new players and vets as far as how well mechs can compete into a more sensible range. The skill gap will still be there, and the honed loadout vs new loadout will still have some gaps but it will be far closer if its actually manage at the loadout level.

See my response to #2.

sycocys, on 28 December 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

4. All 3 of those points would make comp play better because everything would be managed towards a better base balance of mechs, the ability to not have every match be an arty/flush fest (or at least the ability to destroy them) and people having to make much more dialed in decisions in their builds to get that slight advantage over another build.

Considering that most people use their Arty/Air Strikes at full health, and doesn't prevent or reduce minmaxing significantly, I don't see this helping in any way.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 28 December 2017 - 11:03 PM.

[sycocys]

Anything that you bring to a match should take crit slots and/or tonnage. Strikes especially included because they do as much or more damage as a ton of ammo. As far as players using them right away, well they could still maybe get a few off on the team, but once players can destroy them as the cooldown is active you'll see people actively trying to do that - you will also not have air strike matches one players have to actually choose to dedicate slots and tonnage to them.
- Same as the problem with UAVs having no balancing cost to the match
- also the same problem with flushes
- and the same reason why ecm/bap take slots and tonnage
- same reason tag and artemis have slot and tonnage costs
- CC and Targeting computers as well
- and stealth armor

Min/maxing isn't the issue - the #1 problem with the skill node system is the same exact problem with the original skill system - its a no balance buff that puts anyone not well into the tree for their mechs at a severe disadvantage - beyond that and more problematic is that it only expounds the skill gap between different levels of player skill. Which is a huge problem for a game with a small player base that tosses everyone in the same MM pool.

Small controlled differences aren't a huge problem but the huge performance gaps between fully skilled mechs and mid/non skilled mech this game has is a massive problem still. Player skill doesn't even need to factor in at that point, its just foolish to have a system like that in place to begin with in a PVP only game that matches all players against each other.

Lastly players would still be able to specialize all they wanted - it would just require more slots/tonnage for more boosts - a hard limit to the buffs + a crittable item in the cockpit to potentially negate the buffs.
You will never get players to actually specialize in anything if there aren't hard limits and choices that need to be made in the build process that includes the skill buff system.