87 replies to this topic

[Bjorn JorgenssonX]

Why are they so bad? Since when in the Mechwarrior/Battletech universe have large lasers been better than PPCs? They are supposed to be the most powerful energy weapon. Come on fix this.

[Bombast]

Uh... PPCs are pretty powerful. Do you have a specific complaint regarding them?

[FupDup]

I don't think any energy weapon should be the "best" of the class.

Personally I'd like some more velocity for every type of IS PPC and also linear minimum range scaling, but the goal is not to make them better than everything else available.

[El Bandito]

PPCs are far from bad. They have limited use due to GH constraints, but even top players still use them.

[Khobai]

PPC min range needs to be replaced with linear damage dropoff with an absolute minimum of 33% damage

So at 0m youd do 3.33 damage which would scale up linearly to 10 damage at 90m.

No weapon should have a zero damage deadzone.

either that or just remove the minrange entirely on all PPCs. and get rid of the SNPPC.

Edited by Khobai, 27 December 2017 - 09:26 PM.

[Tarogato]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

PPC min range needs to be replaced with linear damage dropoff with an absolute minimum of 33% damage

So at 0m youd do 3.33 damage which would scale up linearly to 10 damage at 90m.

No weapon should have a zero damage deadzone.

Personally, I'd go with "distance fired under 90m translates to percent of damage that you deal to yourself instead of the enemy." So if you hit something at 45m, it deals 50% damage to the enemy, and 50% to you.

That's my interpretation on the lore, anyways.

[Dr Hobo]

Tarogato, on 27 December 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

Personally, I'd go with "distance fired under 90m translates to percent of damage that you deal to yourself instead of the enemy." So if you hit something at 45m, it deals 50% damage to the enemy, and 50% to you.

That's my interpretation on the lore, anyways.

Basically,the safeties wouldn't let it fire at all. But daring pilots would disable the safety to fire anyway. You'd get all the feedback and too and potentially disabling the weapon(electronics have problems and could shut down,with a broken weapon,a very risky move).

But you could do full damage at minimum range.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

PPC min range needs to be replaced with linear damage dropoff with an absolute minimum of 33% damage

So at 0m youd do 3.33 damage which would scale up linearly to 10 damage at 90m.

No weapon should have a zero damage deadzone.

Tarogato, on 27 December 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

Personally, I'd go with "distance fired under 90m translates to percent of damage that you deal to yourself instead of the enemy." So if you hit something at 45m, it deals 50% damage to the enemy, and 50% to you.

That's my interpretation on the lore, anyways.

Return damage sounds more interesting, assuming PGI can code it. Another way to do it is to give certain PPCs random chance to malfunction for 10 seconds when fired at sub 90 meters--although RNG is probably not desirable.

[Khobai]

well the other alternative is just get rid of min range on PPCs entirely

and just remove the SNPPC from the game

since balancing the SNPPC is the only reason PPCs still need a min range

is the SNPPC really something we need if PPCs have no min range? nope.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

is the SNPPC really something we need if PPCs have no min range? nope.

Unless you make it colder so it would actually be the decent close-quarters weapon it is meant to be.

[Khobai]

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Unless you make it colder so it would actually be the decent close-quarters weapon it is meant to be.

PPCs arnt supposed to be cold weapons

thats why theyre PPCs and not lasers

weapons have defining traits. a defining trait of PPCs is heat.

but I question whether the SNPPC even needs to exist if you just remove the obnoxious min range on PPCs that nobody likes anyway.

Make LPPCs do 5 damage under 90m, heat stays the same

Make PPCs do 10 damage under 90m, heat stays the same

Make HPPCs do 15 damage under 90m, heat might need to be slightly increased

Remove SNPPC completely

Edited by Khobai, 27 December 2017 - 08:27 PM.

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

PPCs arnt supposed to be cold weapons

thats why theyre PPCs and not lasers

weapons have defining traits. a defining trait of PPCs is heat.

A defining trait of lasers is heat as well. Yet we can boat them just fine.

I see no reason why the SNPPC couldn't be balanced against the regular PPC by making it cooler. Not so cool that you could boat 4+ of them or spam a pair of them non-stop, but enough to where you could fire two of them in a brawl for a period of time without melting into the floor.

[Khobai]

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A defining trait of lasers is heat as well. Yet we can boat them just fine.

lasers dont run nearly as hot as PPCs

so to rephrase: a defining trait of PPCs is heat but also being much hotter than lasers

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I see no reason why the SNPPC couldn't be balanced against the regular PPC by making it cooler.

because of the ISLPL

ISLPL causes balance nightmares for SNPPC

it makes more sense just to remove the SNPPC from the game

why do you need it if the LPPC, PPC, and HPPC have their min ranges removed?

literally the only reason the SNPPC exists is because those other PPCs have min ranges. if you remove the min ranges its not needed.

Edited by Khobai, 27 December 2017 - 08:33 PM.

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

lasers dont run nearly as hot as PPCs

so to rephrase: a defining trait of PPCs is heat but also being much hotter than lasers

I don't see how that affects the SNPPC and a heat scale that puts it lower than the PPC. All things are relative - The LPPC isnt that hot. Should it be removed?

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because of the ISLPL

ISLPL causes balance nightmares for SNPPC

LPLs are already kind of a balance nightmare at the moment. Seems unfair to use that against the SNPPC.

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why do you need it if the LPPC, PPC, and HPPC have their min ranges removed?

Its crit size (CT install potential) gives it a niche, limited as it may be. And again, lowering the heat would give it a brawling spot.

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literally the only reason the SNPPC exists is because those other PPCs have min ranges. if you remove the min ranges its not needed.

Which is why we're making suggestions on how to expand its niche.

Edited by Bombast, 27 December 2017 - 08:41 PM.

[Khobai]

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Which is why we're making suggestions on how to expand its niche.

delete it.

trying to give the SNPPC a niche is holding back the other PPCs

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

PPCs arnt supposed to be cold weapons

Too bad.

This one has to be even if you don't remove min-range on the PPC otherwise it serves no real purpose.

I have zero interest in preserving your optics.

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

delete it.

trying to give the SNPPC a niche is holding back the other PPCs

I honestly don't see how. Unless you're maintaining PPC minimum range was put in place years in advance of SNPPCs for the sole purpose of justifying its existence should it ever be released.

[Dr Hobo]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

delete it.

trying to give the SNPPC a niche is holding back the other PPCs

I actually like SNPPCs. I use them in one of my vindicators. And another gets an HPPC.

I like all the PPC variants,tehy server their niches.

I wouldn't mind feedback on the PPCs like if you're firing under range your computer systems can malfunction and you're fighting blind.

[Khobai]

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This one has to be even if you don't remove min-range on the PPC otherwise it serves no real purpose.

SNPPC will always be worse than the LPL

and youre right it has no real purpose. hence why it should be removed.

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I honestly don't see how. Unless you're maintaining PPC minimum range was put in place years in advance of SNPPCs for the sole purpose of justifying its existence should it ever be released.

the opposite. ppc min range was used as justification to add the SNPPC.

[Dr Hobo]

Khobai, on 27 December 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

SNPPC will always be worse than the LPL

and youre right it has no real purpose. hence why it should be removed.




the opposite. ppc min range was used as justification to add the SNPPC.

it does serve a purpose. A snapshot energy weapon. I can't poke my arm out,shoot once and go back into cover. With LPL I have to do the full burn to do full damage. With a SNPPC I just poke shoot retreat. I use it for weight/space saving over a standard PPC/HPPC.