19 replies to this topic

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 03:14 PM.

[Torchfire Katayama]

There was a teamspeak for clans, they switched to discord. They maintained the teamspeak last I saw but it's empty most times.

stranamechty.info StranaMechty

Edited by Torchfire Katayama, 27 December 2017 - 01:14 PM.

[Torchfire Katayama]

As for IS meta... pretty much anything. All the IS weapons are stronger and better than what the clans have right now.

Laser Vomit, IS has it.
Dakka Build, IS has it, long range and short.
LRM Boat, IS has it.
SRM boat, IS has that as well.

Currently the best thing you can do in an IS drop is

Assassin: 4xSRM
Assassin: 4xSRM OR Crab:Laser Vomit
100 Ton of choice: King Crab or Annihilator.
80 Tons left over (70 if chose Crab) for whatever heavy or light assault you want, doesn't matter.

The current Winning IS strategy the clans have yet to reliably beat uses this drop deck. Doesn't matter what order you drop in, as long as everyone is in the same kind of mech when you drop. Nothing a 12 man drop of clans has will beat a 12 man IS with this deck.

Edited by Torchfire Katayama, 27 December 2017 - 01:19 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

(chuckles)

Wrong subforum since this has nothing to do with the recent patch. Request a mod to move it to Faction forums, which has tons of threads about this.

Also, are you aware that the tonnage different Clan 240 vs IS 265 / Scouting 50vs55 has been in play for over a year, SINCE December 2016? Done mostly due to the Clans retaining more often the organized active units. Look at the Innersphere map, all of that is primarily due to teamwork followed slightly by tech imbalance.

I have pug for both factions, Clan mechs, both omni and battlemechs are more difficult to frak up with setups where as IS battlemechs are too easy to screw up. Then again there is team work and which side is the aggressor, especially pug-vs-pug. But ask yourself, why do most organized merc units prefer Clan over IS? It is not for the faction, it is for the tech....

[Ornithopter]

An here I thought all the merc units just went Clan to grab all the rewards for the ranking up... You realize that after all is said and done, the mercs go back to the IS more often than naught and reclaim all the planets back again, as is going on now...

[SlyJJ]

Games never really favored is. Best we had was when civil war came out and we started doing serious damage to the clan. Enough people whined and is got hit with the nerf bat hard.

So clan has weapons that do more damage from greater ranges that weigh less and take up fewer crits on their mechs that move significantly faster than is mechs. Those are some pretty significant advantages.

To counter this pgi attempts to bolster is mechs armor. Problem is that speed and superior fire power always beat tanks that have slightly lesser weapons.

I crunched numbers a while back when debating this is showed mathematically how superior the weapons are. Far as range damage and heat- clan is simply better. The heat correlated with damage (as in they generate more heat because you’re doing more damage) and point for point still generate less heat per point damage than is. Most that complain about the heat simply don’t know how to manage their heat. Again coupled with their incredible speed (clan mechs move with the speed of is mechs a class below them) and you’ve got significant advantages

Now this doesn’t mean you can’t win as is. Strategy is the most
Important part of fw. Everything else is second. Why would you want to play as is? I think it’s more fun with more variety with more weapons. The balance has been closest it’s ever been since civil war, but clan is still meta

[Mr Salty Silva]

SlyJJ, on 27 December 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

Games never really favored is. Best we had was when civil war came out and we started doing serious damage to the clan. Enough people whined and is got hit with the nerf bat hard.

So clan has weapons that do more damage from greater ranges that weigh less and take up fewer crits on their mechs that move significantly faster than is mechs. Those are some pretty significant advantages.

To counter this pgi attempts to bolster is mechs armor. Problem is that speed and superior fire power always beat tanks that have slightly lesser weapons.

I crunched numbers a while back when debating this is showed mathematically how superior the weapons are. Far as range damage and heat- clan is simply better. The heat correlated with damage (as in they generate more heat because you’re doing more damage) and point for point still generate less heat per point damage than is. Most that complain about the heat simply don’t know how to manage their heat. Again coupled with their incredible speed (clan mechs move with the speed of is mechs a class below them) and you’ve got significant advantages

Now this doesn’t mean you can’t win as is. Strategy is the most
Important part of fw. Everything else is second. Why would you want to play as is? I think it’s more fun with more variety with more weapons. The balance has been closest it’s ever been since civil war, but clan is still meta

Fair enough but how are you going to respond to a 6 anh drop in the first wave when IS is favored with more armor (and Armor quirks) and fighting on maps which are primarly designed for close range fighting?
Im fine with IS having armor over weaponry (pro's and con's need to exist) but right now the weight limit for Clans is too oppressive for FW, in my opinion.
Clans bring one assault top while Is can easily muster 2 assaults per drop deck...

Edited by Mr Salty Silva, 28 December 2017 - 04:10 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

SlyJJ, on 27 December 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

Games never really favored is.

Untrue. After the introduction of the Clans initially, they got heavily nerfed into relative oblivion, and haven't stopped their downward spiral.

SlyJJ, on 27 December 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

Best we had was when civil war came out and we started doing serious damage to the clan. Enough people whined and is got hit with the nerf bat hard.

I can't find anything in the changelogs to support that statement.

[Dago Red]

BTGbullseye, on 28 December 2017 - 10:18 PM, said:

Untrue. After the introduction of the Clans initially, they got heavily nerfed into relative oblivion, and haven't stopped their downward spiral.


I can't find anything in the changelogs to support that statement.

You have an interesting view on history. Perhaps you should be making textbooks in Texas?

[Mr Salty Silva]

Dago, come on, that adds nothing to this thread and deralling it proves that devs shouldnt be listening to the gaming comunity.
Anyways back on topic.

Look i love the lore and being a Clan Ghost Bear Loyalist, i wish they could preserve it in-game. But as it stand the tech disparity is obvious in lore and unable to be translated to the game. Balance is needed, even if non cannon changes need to be made.
Right now i rally behind the banner that clan techs need to be made available to all factions, drop decks normalized for both IS and Clan. Also clear Pro's and Con's to using IS or Clan tech.Right now CERLL arent in a good spot and so aren't several mechs like the Atlas, Direwolf and so forth.

The rest of the equipment, in my opinion, is pretty balanced at the moment.They just need to be made available to all factions.

Edited by Mr Salty Silva, 28 December 2017 - 11:48 PM.

[Dago Red]

Mr Salty Silva, on 28 December 2017 - 11:47 PM, said:

Dago, come on, that adds nothing to this thread and deralling it proves that devs shouldnt be listening to the gaming comunity.
Anyways back on topic.

I'd like to point out how refreshing it is to get chided for a needling that light after spending a walkabout in other multiplayer games and seeing how people talk to each other in most of those communities. On the Destiny 2 forums I could have told him I hope he dies tuberculosis and it would have got 30 upvotes.

I legit kind of love the higher standards here.


More on topic the balance on the whole has always tilted clan side to varying degrees but I don't mind because I'm the kind of lore nerd who picked my house specifically based in the appeal of fighting an uphill and hopeless battle. So I don't begrudge it but people who can't see it crack me up.


Mix tech would fix it but would also make a lot of equipment extinct plus ruining the different feel of the factions. Different but equal would be nice but I'm not sure it's attainable..

[BTGbullseye]

I know you're looking at it from the base stats of weapons, but when you factor in that the IS makes up for all that with significantly more armor, faster fire rates, lower heat, and more drop tonnage, (for FP) as well as massive amounts of quirks that equalize the ranges, the balance has significantly shifted to the IS side of things.

[Mr Salty Silva]

The point of mixing techs is also on the mech building side. Dont forget that while a Clan and IS UAC 10 (for example) do the same thing and get almost the same stats, a Clan weapon take up less space. With leave space for more ammo.

Now less context it on a balanced side. You take a King crab, and you stick a Clan UAC 20 and a IS UAC 20 (just roll with for a bit). Now the clan, like i said is smaller but jams more and has a 3 round burst, spreading the damage (so Pro is more space for other systems with a bit of less performance). The IS side, more space and weight but 2 round burst and less jam chance. Thats just an example. Imagine lasers being balanced on the same "scale".

The systems wouldnt disappear but rather get used based on your needs. Now the problem on this balance aproach is the engines. One could get rid of IS XL engines and allow for clan but im not sure if thats viable at all since it makes Light Engines obsolete aswell...

But this is just a suggestion.

Also, side note, Dago im not sure if you were sarcastic or not but in case you feel i insulted you, you are free to PM me.

Edited by Mr Salty Silva, 29 December 2017 - 05:32 AM.

[Dago Red]

BTGbullseye, on 29 December 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

I know you're looking at it from the base stats of weapons, but when you factor in that the IS makes up for all that with significantly more armor, faster fire rates, lower heat, and more drop tonnage, (for FP) as well as massive amounts of quirks that equalize the ranges, the balance has significantly shifted to the IS side of things.

That's true for some very specific overquircked mechs that also happen to have good hardpoints that the comp teams jump on super hard but when you're talking the average random mech with the average random player the numbers come out in favor of the clans. Especially when you count in the ability to cram so much more stuff into a clan mech while keeping a good sized durable engine.

Now the fact that it leads too IS tending to do better in the brawl and and clans in the pokey snipey game is fine with me as it help differentiate the overall feel and play style of the two factions.

Mr Salty Silva, on 29 December 2017 - 05:31 AM, said:

The point of mixing techs is also on the mech building side. Dont forget that while a Clan and IS UAC 10 (for example) do the same thing and get almost the same stats, a Clan weapon take up less space. With leave space for more ammo.

Now less context it on a balanced side. You take a King crab, and you stick a Clan UAC 20 and a IS UAC 20 (just roll with for a bit). Now the clan, like i said is smaller but jams more and has a 3 round burst, spreading the damage (so Pro is more space for other systems with a bit of less performance). The IS side, more space and weight but 2 round burst and less jam chance. Thats just an example. Imagine lasers being balanced on the same "scale".

The systems wouldnt disappear but rather get used based on your needs. Now the problem on this balance aproach is the engines. One could get rid of IS XL engines and allow for clan but im not sure if thats viable at all since it makes Light Engines obsolete aswell...

But this is just a suggestion.

Also, side note, Dago im not sure if you were sarcastic or not but in case you feel i insulted you, you are free to PM me.

I mean I can't see any engines aside from clan XL and standards seeing any use at all. IS standard AC's would see heavy use while clan Ultra's are virtually equal in preformance but have less weight so would overshadow their IS equivalent.

You'd likely never see an IS small laser of any type again and rarely mediums. The clan ERPPC completely overshadows the IS ones. For those who like to lurm the complete lack of minimum range and wildly lower weight makes going clan on that a no brainer. Clan heat sincs would obsolete IS ones. Sure I'm missing some other stuff.

All that aside right now piloting a specific factions tech has a really specific and different feel. I think you lose a lot of the soul of the game if you get rid of that.

And no I don't feel insulted in fact that was an ultra rare example of me being completely serious and not sarcastic. Side note yes I'm aware that even my assurances that I'm not being sarcastic sound extremely snarky. It's a curse. You should see the horror show that is me trying to give someone a genuine complement.

Edited by Dago Red, 29 December 2017 - 05:50 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

This obsession with weight is almost always nullified by the fact that clan weapons run hotter and require additional dhs to function. Ya know, those same op 2 slot dhs? That 1 slot 4 ton C-ERLL is actually closer 3 slots and 5 tons due to requiring at least an additional dhs to function comparable to its IS equivalent. Same can be said for about every Clan laser system, but especially the medium and larges. C-LPL is pretty much 4 slots and 7 tons.
See, when you factor in the fact that Clan requires those additional heat sinks to even be able to shoot the myth of lighter weapons evaporates.
But go ahead and continue to convince yourself otherwise. Especially that myth of CXL survivability... Once you're ST pops, you're good as dead. Unless you remains weaponry consists of a small laser and some crappy clan machine guns, you are not going to be firing much at all.

[Broganos]

If you need Faction Play bags, go scouting and take streaks. You will earn your bags quicker that way for either faction.

[Dago Red]

JackalBeast, on 29 December 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

snip

You are aware that it's the exact same penalty a LFE gets so most IS players are more than aware how it feel when losing a side torso with one by now yes. Beats the hell out of being outright killed to get the same weight savings though doesn't it?

Look on my clan alt I get more damage and a similar kill count for exerting the same amount of effort as an IS mech. I actually prefer the feel of IS plus you know lore based faction loyalty but the difference in effectiveness especially in a poke fest is noticeable.

Nothing worth screaming about but it's there.

[Tarl Cabot]

BTGbullseye, on 28 December 2017 - 10:18 PM, said:

Untrue. After the introduction of the Clans initially, they got heavily nerfed into relative oblivion, and haven't stopped their downward spiral.


I can't find anything in the changelogs to support that statement.

17-JUN-2014 Clan Release - pre-order release
19-JUL-2014 Converted all existing IS mechs to new quirk system
05-SEP-2014 Clan/IS weapon changes
07-OCT-2014 Clan XL - Heat Penalty w/loss of one side torso (Four months)
11-DEC-2014 Community Warfare, aka Faction Play for the new players.

01-DEC-2015 Skill Tree Reduction, ERLM/smaller Clan Energy weapons max range reduced (but eventually reversed) loss of C-XL torso/speed reduction

24-JAN-2017 Increasing cXL heat penalty from 20% to 40%. (When most were looking at isXL surviving the loss of a ST)

I did not include how often PGI kept giving massive quirks to new IS mechs then stripping them away once they became available for C-Bills.

[IL MECHWARRIOR]

clan needs a serious buff on laser heat, erll range and uac jamchance and heat

[BTGbullseye]

anonymous223, on 30 December 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

clan needs a serious buff on laser heat, erll range and uac jamchance and heat

Clan ballistics are fine as-is... They aren't OP or underpowered.

Laser heat is good for everything except the ERLL and Heavy Lasers. The ERLL needs to be put back to where it was before, and the Heavies need a 5% reduction. (that's a 0.5 reduction for every 10 heat, which would likely not significantly reduce the TTO, but would slightly speed the recovery time)

ERLL range is fine as-is, since it takes some of the best quirked IS mechs to come close to an unquirked Clan's range. (as it really should be)

The biggest problem is that the IS has 50-200% better armor per class, (I don't take issue above 75% on a superquirked mech, but an Urbie that can facetank better than most Clan Heavies is absurd) faster fire rates for 75-90% damage laser weapons at similar ranges, and much lower overall heat generation with only slightly reduced heat containment and dissipation in comparison. There are a lot of areas that the IS is way OP in, and extremely few that the Clans are even slightly better in.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 31 December 2017 - 01:58 AM.