19 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

Hey guys!

So, how many of you ever use trial mechs?

What are your opinions of the current ones in-game?

I was forced to use them heavily on my alt account, cose' it's my "IS mechs only" account, and I wanted to drop together with my significant other, and she was under clan contract, so I used clan trials to finish all the FP loot bags..

Here are my opinions of current trial mechs:

1) Without skills, trial mechs are paper thin. Seriously, they get blown away in seconds.

2) Trial mechs have meta-builds, but some are so bad or so situational that they are not very useful. Like putting no armor on the hands? Really?

3) Not all weapon systems are represented. The clans don't have a single trial LRM boat.

4) If you're trying to make a clan trial dropdeck, you don't really have much options. You can either go 0/2/1/1 or 1/1/1/1..

5) Some of the builds don't make sense.. like.. how am I supposed to use the Gauss on the Direwolf without the zoom module? It makes no sense...

6) Tre trial mechs are dated, we really REALLY need new trial mechs..

[N0ni]

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

1) Without skills, trial mechs are paper thin. Seriously, they get blown away in seconds.

Trial mechs aren't set up with optimal front/back armor, those are for the more experienced players. Sub-optimal but still decent is more geared towards newer players which is the point of trial mechs.

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

2) Trial mechs have meta-builds, but some are so bad or so situational that they are not very useful. Like putting no armor on the hands? Really?

Trial mechs have old/dated meta builds, they still work but are less than ideal in the current environment. All of those were well before Civil War update. Also, having no armor in the arms where nothing is being used frees up tonnage either for equipment or additional armor on places you are using stuff.

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

3) Not all weapon systems are represented. The clans don't have a single trial LRM boat.

Because it was the community that came up with the builds and were voted on. Blame democracy.

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

4) If you're trying to make a clan trial dropdeck, you don't really have much options. You can either go 0/2/1/1 or 1/1/1/1..

Yeah, that kinda sucks. The more options the better.

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

5) Some of the builds don't make sense.. like.. how am I supposed to use the Gauss on the Direwolf without the zoom module? It makes no sense...

Use your regular zoom and eyeballs, that's what i do. Advanced Zoom only promotes tunnel vision imo and is a waste of a node.

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

6) Tre trial mechs are dated, we really REALLY need new trial mechs..

Agreed. There's quite a selection of mechs that have been out for awhile that don't have champion builds/trials yet. Hell, we can even throw in new tech just to get that into rotation.

[El Bandito]

I don't use trials. I will add that they need to be updated with new tech, especially the IS ones.

[jss78]

Overall they should be a much higher priority -- they are the first thing a new player must play with.

They should be updated with latest tech.

The builds don't necessarily need to be "meta". They need to be easy-to-use, illustrate basic 'mech building principles, and showcase a variety of weapon systems.

You could give them armor/cooldown/heat etc. bonuses equal to having maybe 50-75% of max skill tree nodes. It'll make them less painful to play, but you still have the incentive to 100% skill your own 'mech.

I'd also rotate the selection more frequently, at least every other patch.

[UnofficialOperator]

Some of the clan trial mechs are great though.

1. Don't need armor if you use terrain

5. No great pilot I've ever spectated uses advance zoom

6. Probably but I hope they keep some of the same trial mechs

[Vellron2005]

UnofficialOperator, on 04 January 2018 - 02:35 AM, said:

5. No great pilot I've ever spectated uses advance zoom

I don't know who you run with, but only people who don't need advanced zoom are those who facehug and spam SRMs.. everyone else can benefit from better visibility..

But for some weapons and builds that feature long-range sniper weapons like Gauss, PPC and ERLL's, advanced zoom is an absolute must..

But yeah, you run with T1 SRM spammers I guess, so it's natural you wouldn't see that..

[UnofficialOperator]

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 03:31 AM, said:

I don't know who you run with, but only people who don't need advanced zoom are those who facehug and spam SRMs.. everyone else can benefit from better visibility..

But for some weapons and builds that feature long-range sniper weapons like Gauss, PPC and ERLL's, advanced zoom is an absolute must..

But yeah, you run with T1 SRM spammers I guess, so it's natural you wouldn't see that..

Lol I'm pretty sure most competent pilots don't use advance zoom because usually they don't stay so far away and snipe anyway. They'd probably gauss at a distance near enough to just use the normal zoom. Although I do see Baradul using it in his 2016 vids.

But then I don't spend as much time dead spectating as you have, so maybe you do have a better idea

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 04 January 2018 - 04:03 AM.

[N0ni]

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 03:31 AM, said:

only people who don't need advanced zoom are those who facehug and spam SRMs..

lolwat? No. You can very well target specific components from long range with gauss/ppc without the use of advanced zoom,
it's all about travel distance, velocity and direction your target is heading. Once you get your A, B and C down pat, it just comes natural even without regular zoom.

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 03:31 AM, said:

But for some weapons and builds that feature long-range sniper weapons like Gauss, PPC and ERLL's, advanced zoom is an absolute must..

And at least 95% of fights end in a brawl, which renders Advanced Zoom useless in those ranges since you'll be tunnel visioning even more if you do use it in those ranges. Then you'll be wishing you took an extra heat gen node or cooldown instead.

[Seranov]

Honestly, none of the trial mechs should have LRMs. The playstyle for using them correctly is way beyond most new players, and they should be encouraged to close and fight in the 200-600m that the majority of combat occurs in in this game, not to sit back 900m from the enemy and shoot LRMs into buildings.

They definitely could use some updating, but they're not that bad.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

So, how many of you ever use trial mechs?

What are your opinions of the current ones in-game?

Here are my opinions of current trial mechs:

1) Without skills, trial mechs are paper thin. Seriously, they get blown away in seconds.

2) Trial mechs have meta-builds, but some are so bad or so situational that they are not very useful. Like putting no armor on the hands? Really?

3) Not all weapon systems are represented. The clans don't have a single trial LRM boat.

4) If you're trying to make a clan trial dropdeck, you don't really have much options. You can either go 0/2/1/1 or 1/1/1/1..

5) Some of the builds don't make sense.. like.. how am I supposed to use the Gauss on the Direwolf without the zoom module? It makes no sense...

6) Tre trial mechs are dated, we really REALLY need new trial mechs..

I haven't used a Trial 'mech for a while. Maybe once in CW back before I had anything other than Heavy 'mechs, before that it was a DRG in Beta.

Some of them seem OK for new players, especially the ones that have been designed & voted for since I came back. They're not team carry builds, but they are more than serviceable.

1. They also have higher than normal (but lower than stock) rear armour, so new players aren't as easily punished for turning away from the enemy. Even a standard skill template applied to every 'mech would be a good start. A hodge-podge with a bit of everything, like this, perhaps.

2. As mentioned, unarmoured arms are common in builds that need the extra tonnage, especially when those arms are empty.

3. No LRMs is a good thing. Let's not handicap the new players with LRMs, please. ATMs, MRMs, SRMs or SSRMs? Sure. LRMs? PLZNO!

4. This would be solved with a better spread at any given time & more frequent rotation of chassis.

5. Gauss is fine without the Advanced Zoom module node. Advanced Zoom taught me some really bad habits, I would advise anyone else to never use it.

6. Some are pretty dated. Yes, we really do.

List of 'mechs that need a Champion version (ranked in order of release);
Kit Fox
Summoner
Ice Ferret
Gargoyle
Mad Dog
Executioner
Urbanmech
Black Knight
Marauder
(Anything above here is long overdue a (C) build)
Rifleman
Archer
Viper
Cyclops
Huntsman
Linebacker
Marauder IIC
Bushwacker
Supernova
Assasin
Roughneck
Javelin
Cougar
Uziel
Mad Cat Mk II
Annihilator
(Now we get to those 'mechs that aren't out for C-Bills yet)
Osiris
Arctic Wolf
Nova Cat
Nightstar
Thanatos
Hellspawn
(Now we get to those 'mechs that aren't out yet)
Piranha
Black Lanner
Sun Spider

[sumbody]

This is my alt account. I use the HBR mostly. I was stuck in T4 until I jumped into the HBR.

I believe they have some sort of optimization. I noticed that this HBR can climb hills a lot better than my 91 node HBR on my main account.

[Mole]

I've played with Trial 'mechs before. Taken some idea for builds from them even. I almost own every chassis in the game at this point though, so unless there's a Battlemaster, Cyclops, or Executioner on trial then I already have whatever is on trial. Those three are the only chassis that have been released for CBills that I do not own.

[FupDup]

All trial robots should come with the skill tree fully decked out for their build.

[Dee Eight]

I used the trial nova when i made a smurf account a year ago until I hit enough cbills to put a splat crow together. The problem with the trial mechs...is that PGI doesn't just create new player friendly trial mechs. Instead they take previously created champion version mechs, which except for the LAST round of champions (where they specifically DID point out that these new champions would go into rotation as trial mechs) which were put forth for creation on the forums, largely were only considered "meta" builds at the time for the circumstances of the game at that moment. They were ALL created pre-skill tree and pre civil war tech advance.

Thus...we have mechs like the Hellbringer champion with its twin large pulse and triple medium ER lasers... and an ECM...which now has different laser ranges and burn durations and damages and heat levels, and an ECM unit that's less than half as effective as it originally was without the benefit of skill nodes. We have a highlander 2C champion variant which was created based around a "full body armor +8" quirk was PGI now says was an error, even though when it first appeared in the patch update that the Orion 2C and Highlander 2C got their quirks, dozens asked about it on the forums and emails and PGI couldn't be bothered to answer. There's a Kodiak champion design that was created pre-agility nerf, and pre torso pitch and twist nerfs. The Kintaro champion was created at a time when LRMs well... maybe not meta... were a lot better than they are now. Any champions built around gauses, likely didn't have the charge mechanic to deal with at the time they were created. Etc and so forth.

Whatever gets put forward by PGI for the next round of champion designing will not only need to account for their being used unskilled as well as trial mechs as well as featuring a healthy dosage of new civil war tech. Given what exists already though....and the usual trend to have an equal # of each weight class of clan and IS mech, that we'll get two each of lights mediums, heavies and assaults and it'll all be stuff available for cbills at the time. Fortunately the clans did get a light last year with the cougar.

[Dee Eight]

Mole, on 04 January 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

I've played with Trial 'mechs before. Taken some idea for builds from them even. I almost own every chassis in the game at this point though, so unless there's a Battlemaster, Cyclops, or Executioner on trial then I already have whatever is on trial. Those three are the only chassis that have been released for CBills that I do not own.

There is a champion battlemaster that has been in rotation as a trial before, based on the 2C variant. There is no cyclops or executioner champion as of yet to put into rotation as a trial mech. The BLR-2C(C) in particular...rebuilds well around the new tech. Swap the 3 medium pulses for 3 medium ER lasers and you match almost perfectly to the range profile of the large pulses. Replace the 315 standard engine with a 350 light fusion. Install a TC2 for a 4.5% laser range boost. Same # of heatsinks except now two more are contained in the engine, the mech is faster and its heat management is slightly better.

[CFC Conky]

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

Hey guys!

So, how many of you ever use trial mechs?

What are your opinions of the current ones in-game?

[color=inherit]...[/color]

The Hunchback IIC is pretty good, as is the Warhammer. The Kodiak is pretty good for dakka.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[HGAK47]

Man i almost forgot about trial mechs, havent used them for a long time. What have they got in there I might take some for a spin and die in a blaze of glory! (or just die without contributing much at all)

[Vellron2005]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 January 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

3. No LRMs is a good thing. Let's not handicap the new players with LRMs, please. ATMs, MRMs, SRMs or SSRMs? Sure. LRMs? PLZNO!

I disagree..

Trial mechs are mostly used by new players, true.. but also by experienced players (like myself).. Weather some vocal LRM hater minority likes it or not, LRMs are a big part of this game..

Nearly EVERY match has at least one LRM user, and many have 3-4 / side. (info from personal experience, not counting myself)

I see no reason why using LRMs would be a handicap for a new player.. If anything, it's a useful skill to learn, both in using and in countering LRMs..

So then it is logical to feature this weapon system in trial mechs.. and you never know.. when some new hopeful will take to them and become the next LRM God..

Also, I find LRM-less trials to be discrimination against LRM users..

Edited by Vellron2005, 05 January 2018 - 01:56 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Some are good but not really fully optimal, maybe like 80% optimal, some are just mediocre, others are outright bad and I wouldn't recommend them ever.

One side effect of the builds being community made and there being no form of electoral college is that any build could be voted on and win out over the others no matter the merits of each. We nearly got a dual LBX + small lasers Warhammer as a trial mech that puts out less firepower than the average brawling light mech.

We could use a more dedicated build team or refinements to trial builds or a more objective setup of trial mechs that provides a good mech for each role that we could think up.

For example, have a long range spotter/ERLL poker light mech, a close range harasser light mech, a team support AMS/ECM light, and a poptart light. Have a direct fire support medium, poker medium, poptart medium, brawler medium, have a poker heavy, the obligatory LRM heavy, a direct fire support heavy, brawler heavy. Lastly have a heavy direct firesupport assault, high firepower alpha assault, brawler assault, and maybe just throw in an LRM boat assault too while we're at it since T5 just loves those things.

This way we give new players an ample supply of roles and builds for each mech in a more coherent way than we currently have. Just be sure to refine the builds up to current standards of the meta every time a big change comes in that demolishes one of the builds or improves others so that they're better, and give the new players some competitive mechs that they'll do good in and that they can look at as an example of how to build a practical mech. It also gives players experience in each role so that they may be more likely to buy mechs of the same role later on to try out compared to the trial one.

[K O Z A K]

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 03:31 AM, said:

I don't know who you run with, but only people who don't need advanced zoom are those who facehug and spam SRMs.. everyone else can benefit from better visibility..

But for some weapons and builds that feature long-range sniper weapons like Gauss, PPC and ERLL's, advanced zoom is an absolute must..

But yeah, you run with T1 SRM spammers I guess, so it's natural you wouldn't see that..

T1s are srm spammers? just wow

Adv zoom has a lot of downsides, imo it's only useful for 1200m+ ERLL fight, and how often do you see those

apart from losing skill nodes you can use on more important things like firepower/agility/armour it creates tunnel vision, increases time to aim, and makes targets more difficult to lead at range with gauss/ppcs because it messes up your depth perception. It's like trying to hunt waterfowl with a 4x scope, there's a reason people don't do that