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Why Is Mwo All About The Techbase And Not The Mechs?


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#21 LordNothing

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:32 PM

View PostvisionGT4, on 05 January 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:



Everything about clams lacks credibility, the whole concept is level 10 Saturday morning cartoon villain. Which is why I guess all things clam seems to be so popular with those who have a mental age of 12


see when i go to the beach to harvest clams you pretty much just scoop em up and throw em in a bucket. lets see you do that to the clans and get away with it.

#22 Lozruet Gravemind

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:32 PM

View PostvisionGT4, on 05 January 2018 - 07:18 PM, said:



There is no rational reason in an online multiplayer game which people play for recreational purposes to have one side fundamentally more capable than the other.

claiming lore is a cop out which merely fuels the entitlement


Nice miss quote there. I was simply explaining why. If you actually read my other comments I even said its not fair or fun, but simply thats WHY it is how it is. If you want to discuss this politely fine but if you want to just sling miss quotes and not fully read what people post then there is no need for discussion at all.

#23 Mcgral18

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:39 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 05 January 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:


its my opinion that a player looses all credibility when they start calling clans clams.



You would be incorrect

It's when Clam apologists start saying Clams don't have the majority of the strongest options
Completely unquirked, at that



It's amazing how badly PGI has completely failed at this.
They're hiring another Game Developer now as well
https://piranhagames.../view.php?id=85

Shame my Degree won't be ready (let alone the experience)...but that's probably not for MWO anyhow.

#24 visionGT4

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:42 PM

View PostLozruet Gravemind, on 05 January 2018 - 07:32 PM, said:


Nice miss quote there. I was simply explaining why. If you actually read my other comments I even said its not fair or fun, but simply thats WHY it is how it is. If you want to discuss this politely fine but if you want to just sling miss quotes and not fully read what people post then there is no need for discussion at all.


No offence intended may man, but we all know why in lore clam tech is superior. But the fact of the matter is that there is ZERO relevance between lore and balancing an online multiplayer game.

Its no different from some crazy fundamental Christian or born again claiming "cos its in the bible"

#25 sycocys

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:09 PM

Ultimately what it comes down to - Clan tech broke the canon in the first place.

Why would anyone want to repeat that mistake 20 years later in a free to play PVP only game? ESPECIALLY if you as the developer want to angle towards "e-sports".

Wasn't just PGI though, but quite a lot of players encouraged (demanded really) them to stick to the broken system.

#26 InvictusLee

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:40 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 05 January 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:


its my opinion that a player looses all credibility when they start calling clans clams.
This!!

#27 LordNothing

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:21 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 05 January 2018 - 07:39 PM, said:



You would be incorrect

It's when Clam apologists start saying Clams don't have the majority of the strongest options
Completely unquirked, at that



It's amazing how badly PGI has completely failed at this.
They're hiring another Game Developer now as well
https://piranhagames.../view.php?id=85

Shame my Degree won't be ready (let alone the experience)...but that's probably not for MWO anyhow.


effective balancing requires rapid iteration. a monthly patch cycle is insufficiently rapid enough. especially when the balance tweaks take the back seat to mechpacks, which suck up all the time with the diminished staff. so you higher on another balance guy (who will probably get moved to the mechpack team the second they go behind schedule). even if the new guy stays in the balance department, you still have the systemic issue that iterations are too slow. you need at least a weekly balance tweak pass, in addition to the monthly mech pack pass. if these two passes run completely independantly of eachother then we have a chance of getting balance in order.

also woe be to anyone who actually wants to work in game dev. i hear its a hive of workplace abuses. you have my condolences.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 January 2018 - 10:22 PM.


#28 Naglinator

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:24 PM

View PostHit the Deck, on 05 January 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

Wrong source material for a PvP shooter game.

But PGI basically resurrected BT in video game format from the dead so I'm thankful for it.


Yeah you're right,the hugely unsuccessful game war thunder failed because of tech imbalances... oh wait

#29 Hit the Deck

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:12 AM

View PostNaglinator, on 05 January 2018 - 10:24 PM, said:

Yeah you're right,the hugely unsuccessful game war thunder failed because of tech imbalances... oh wait

You don't control a single unit in the original game and it's balanced around that fact. Not to mention, things like your weapons location and shape of the 'Mech aren't supposed to matter.

Why just not create a new IP? It would be less messy and they will have unlimited freedom although is a far riskier proposal for a dev team.

An extreme analogy would be like trying to adopt the Warhammer 40K universe and make an arena shooter out of it.

#30 Mechrophilia

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:21 AM

Hey! A Clam helped found Quahog!


Edited by Mechrophilia, 06 January 2018 - 12:27 AM.


#31 FuzzyNZ

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:25 AM

Innersphere Mercs had access to Clan weaponry... c'mon already!

#32 A Shoddy Rental Mech

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:29 AM

The skill tree was supposed to close the tech gap.

The civil war tech was supposed to close the tech gap.

The Nerf Bat maintains the status quo.

#33 Jon Gotham

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 01:26 AM

View PostvisionGT4, on 05 January 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

Clam mech comes out - gauranteed to be better ton for ton, crit for crit than an IS mech
IS mech comes out - gauranteed to be inferrior ton for ton, crit for crit compared to a clam mech

This battletech product should be relabled as Techbase Warrior Online.


Thanks for ruining the game entitled clam players

This should be reportable for idiocy. If you really think this, then you are clueless.

#34 Exfaust

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:17 AM

Provided that we ignore the obvious variables of skill regarding pilots, etc etc. I always found it super strange that clan dominate faction warfare - and seem to have much more desirable options in general? My friend is an avid Battletech player and sort of explained the Clan being superior tech wise..but he also mentioned combined arms among other things that allowed the IS to push the Clans back.

I guess as someone who isn't super versed I'm just kind of curious - ..Do people actually want this sort of idea of clans being "stronger" to just kind of ....be as is? I'm not even particularly good at this game, so I won't really state any opinion on the matter, but I guess I've always been curious as to what people think about it in general. It does seem unusually strange in a game that's naturally adversarial in nature..not saying it's like running at a turret with a knife or anything, but it definitely doesn't feel level. Seems like a strange thing to just be cool with to me. Or rather an odd design choice in a multiplayer environment.

#35 TWIAFU

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:35 AM

View PostNaglinator, on 05 January 2018 - 10:24 PM, said:

Yeah you're right,the hugely unsuccessful game war thunder failed because of tech imbalances... oh wait



No, your thinking Hawkken. Highly successful, balance tween robots, no Lore to mess things up, no long history dating back decades to draw in people....

Its great! It's bland, vanilla, generic robot shooter for fun, lowest common denominator. Perfect for the low impact thinkers that just want to shoot robots with lazorz!

You will not have anyone there complaining about Lore or how things were back in the 80s. How OP teamwork is. Nothing.

But then again, game is dead because it had no lore, no history, it was bland, vanilla, generic robot shooter.

#36 Seranov

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:59 AM

I paint all my IS mechs in Clan Ghost Bear colors and decals. They are now Clan mechs.

#37 Y E O N N E

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:02 AM

View PostTWIAFU, on 06 January 2018 - 04:35 AM, said:

But then again, game is dead because it had no lore, no history, it was bland, vanilla, generic robot shooter.


No, the game is dead because they kept removing features and screwing up the balance.

#38 Asym

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:48 AM

And, here we are. Many of us haven't studied Lore, nor played the TT game, nor played any of the other games (non-MW games) either and after reading this thread, I'm not sure balance is a logical goal?

Isn't the in-balance the whole point? Isn't the "opposite" approaches, a play on the Cold War warfare histories, the actual story that drives Clan and IS development and fielding of tactics and equipment?

Someone above alluded to that "at least we have a game to play...." In that, I agree, even with the imperfections that abound in some or many players minds.

In the end, since I can't argue the specifics, I'll leave this with: "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

#39 Lykaon

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:29 AM

View PostAsym, on 06 January 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

And, here we are. Many of us haven't studied Lore, nor played the TT game, nor played any of the other games (non-MW games) either and after reading this thread, I'm not sure balance is a logical goal?

Isn't the in-balance the whole point? Isn't the "opposite" approaches, a play on the Cold War warfare histories, the actual story that drives Clan and IS development and fielding of tactics and equipment?

Someone above alluded to that "at least we have a game to play...." In that, I agree, even with the imperfections that abound in some or many players minds.

In the end, since I can't argue the specifics, I'll leave this with: "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"



As for the Lore of Battletech the reason for the tech imbalances between the Clans and Successor States is how each culture experienced the 300 years apart.

The Inner Sphere experienced near constant warfare with the earlier conflicts being unrestricted warfare. It was the norm to literally attempt to cripple you enemy's technology base by destroying their means of production. Also during this period of unbridaled conflict many forms of technology became impossible or impractical to produce. The loss of inter stellar shipping also created issolation in many of the nations outer reaches and in general technology was not a constant across a single realm. You could be on one world in the Federated Suns and have access to all the modern amenities yet elsewhere in the same nation horse and buggie is the go to form of transportation and the only places with consistant electrical power are military outposts and Comstar facilities.

The situation became so bad in the Inner Sphere that the Successor Houses had to form a pact on how to conduct resticted warfare and set many items of technology as sacrosanct (like Jump ships). In the past there was a similar pact (the Ares Conventions) that was formed in the 25th century but utterly forsaken at the outbreak of the first Succession War.

To make the technilogical regression problem even worse factions within the Comstar order (basically if the phone company merged with the 15th century Vadican) were activley sabotaging attempts made by Inner Sphere scientist to recover lostech. Comstar agents even went as far as assassinations and false flag operations to destroy sites of technilogical development.

So the Inner Sphere had tech regression for much of the Succession Wars period and only recently began to regain some of it's lost technology when a Merc company (Grey Death Legion) discovered an intact Star League era memory core (containing detailed specs on several techs) on the planet Helm at the closing of the third Succession War. This "Helm Memory Core" as it became to be know was diseminated to all the major powers of the Inner Sphere and launch a technological renasaunce.

Meanwhile... The People who became the clans had fled the constant warfare resulting from the collapse of the Star League. Lead by the former head of the League military General Alexandr Kerensky. Kerensky assembled a fleet that composed nearly two thirds of the Star League military and scientists and made way beyond explored space.

Eventually this fleet would discover a region of space with a few bearly habitable worlds and named it the Pentagon worlds (the 5 star systems roughly formed a pentagon ). It wasn't long before Kerensky had a rebellion on his hands as the Pentagon worlds fell to rebel control. Kerensky again fled from the conflict with his remaining loyalists and soon discovered a region of space named the Kerensky cluster.

Kerensky's loyalist settled these worlds but shortly after establishing the colony Alexandr Kerensky died. His son Nicholas Kerensky took over the mantel of leadership and imediatedly formulated a plan to retake the Pentagon worlds. It was Good old Nicky who created the clans at this point forming up the remaining loyalist mechwarriors into 20 clans of 40 members each.
Each of the Pentagon worlds was to be captured by 4 clans. The paln was named operation Klondike and was launched 02/07/2821 and was ended with the total defeat of rebel forces on 05/26/2822.

From this point on the clans developed their unique culture as a product of having to survive on the resource poor worlds they inhabited (the Pentagon and Kerensky cluster worlds were bearly suitable for human habitation) The shortages of resources and close proximity to each other meant that any military conflicts between clans needed to be severely limited in scope and duration. So the clan customs of limited warfare were developed where it was "honorable" to deploy the fewest possible troops to accomplish an objective. And of course the various ritual combats used to resolve conflicts became the norm.

Due to the caste system imposed by Nicholas Kerensky the clans had a dedicated scientist caste that further refined military technologies. Since it became mandatory to accomplish more with fewer resources clan technology heavily focused upon micronising tech. Thus we have the more compact clan technologies like endo steel and ferro armor and compact XL engines and double heat sinks. It was a neccessity to make these items smaller because of the resource shortages to make them at all.


So in the lore there are your background reasons for tech dispairity.

#40 Lozruet Gravemind

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:39 AM

View PostLykaon, on 06 January 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:



As for the Lore of Battletech the reason for the tech imbalances between the Clans and Successor States is how each culture experienced the 300 years apart.

The Inner Sphere experienced near constant warfare with the earlier conflicts being unrestricted warfare. It was the norm to literally attempt to cripple you enemy's technology base by destroying their means of production. Also during this period of unbridaled conflict many forms of technology became impossible or impractical to produce. The loss of inter stellar shipping also created issolation in many of the nations outer reaches and in general technology was not a constant across a single realm. You could be on one world in the Federated Suns and have access to all the modern amenities yet elsewhere in the same nation horse and buggie is the go to form of transportation and the only places with consistant electrical power are military outposts and Comstar facilities.

The situation became so bad in the Inner Sphere that the Successor Houses had to form a pact on how to conduct resticted warfare and set many items of technology as sacrosanct (like Jump ships). In the past there was a similar pact (the Ares Conventions) that was formed in the 25th century but utterly forsaken at the outbreak of the first Succession War.

To make the technilogical regression problem even worse factions within the Comstar order (basically if the phone company merged with the 15th century Vadican) were activley sabotaging attempts made by Inner Sphere scientist to recover lostech. Comstar agents even went as far as assassinations and false flag operations to destroy sites of technilogical development.

So the Inner Sphere had tech regression for much of the Succession Wars period and only recently began to regain some of it's lost technology when a Merc company (Grey Death Legion) discovered an intact Star League era memory core (containing detailed specs on several techs) on the planet Helm at the closing of the third Succession War. This "Helm Memory Core" as it became to be know was diseminated to all the major powers of the Inner Sphere and launch a technological renasaunce.

Meanwhile... The People who became the clans had fled the constant warfare resulting from the collapse of the Star League. Lead by the former head of the League military General Alexandr Kerensky. Kerensky assembled a fleet that composed nearly two thirds of the Star League military and scientists and made way beyond explored space.

Eventually this fleet would discover a region of space with a few bearly habitable worlds and named it the Pentagon worlds (the 5 star systems roughly formed a pentagon ). It wasn't long before Kerensky had a rebellion on his hands as the Pentagon worlds fell to rebel control. Kerensky again fled from the conflict with his remaining loyalists and soon discovered a region of space named the Kerensky cluster.

Kerensky's loyalist settled these worlds but shortly after establishing the colony Alexandr Kerensky died. His son Nicholas Kerensky took over the mantel of leadership and imediatedly formulated a plan to retake the Pentagon worlds. It was Good old Nicky who created the clans at this point forming up the remaining loyalist mechwarriors into 20 clans of 40 members each.
Each of the Pentagon worlds was to be captured by 4 clans. The paln was named operation Klondike and was launched 02/07/2821 and was ended with the total defeat of rebel forces on 05/26/2822.

From this point on the clans developed their unique culture as a product of having to survive on the resource poor worlds they inhabited (the Pentagon and Kerensky cluster worlds were bearly suitable for human habitation) The shortages of resources and close proximity to each other meant that any military conflicts between clans needed to be severely limited in scope and duration. So the clan customs of limited warfare were developed where it was "honorable" to deploy the fewest possible troops to accomplish an objective. And of course the various ritual combats used to resolve conflicts became the norm.

Due to the caste system imposed by Nicholas Kerensky the clans had a dedicated scientist caste that further refined military technologies. Since it became mandatory to accomplish more with fewer resources clan technology heavily focused upon micronising tech. Thus we have the more compact clan technologies like endo steel and ferro armor and compact XL engines and double heat sinks. It was a neccessity to make these items smaller because of the resource shortages to make them at all.


So in the lore there are your background reasons for tech dispairity.


Yep. I think the bigger "arguement" for MWO and really ANY Battletech IPd game is the balance of "lore heads" versus "casuals". Not using casuals in a derogatory sense but simply to describe those NOT into Battletech as heavy.

Lore Heads want a game with imbalances and with a slower more tactical pace. Casuals want somthing more akin to CoD/Battlefield/Rainbow Six really any FPS of the last decade.

Lore Heads also I think, at least I would, wouldnt mind having restrictions on their account or combat. Meaning when one registers an accoung they must pick Clan or IS and can only use mechs from that faction. Further I actually wouldnt mind in game mechanics, say a 10-15% damage reduction, if you are a Clanner and you fire on one target but then switch to the next, emphasizing the clans "Honorable" combat rules

People will complain a game is to simplistic or gamey, CoD/Battlefield or others, but then you try to do somthing with deep mechanics either brand new or based on a large IP like Battletech and they throw a **** fit about all the rules and restrictions.

Once again anything said here isnt directed at any one person or a persons likes or dislikes for the games they play. Just a loose observational assessment.





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