58 replies to this topic

[Grus]

Jess Hazen, on 07 March 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

Sooo thats a bit of a strong and also poor reaction as usual. i'm guessing that none of you free thinking IS white knights who jump on the chance to hurl insults, were there and/or were even capable of comprehending the original reason as to why the cerppc was given the exquisite ability to do splash damage(or as i like to call it, ghost damage. because it counts on the scoreboard but its not really worth anything). No? Well allow me to enlighten you, so please take a load off and join me by the fireplace for story time.

Once upon a time it was determined by the pgi gods the white knights of mwo worship that for no other reason but the fact that 15 points of pinpoint damage in the hands of a clan pilot was too much and in order to soothe the loudest and most heavily overrun river of tears which for some reason always belongs to these white knights, that their wishes naturally would be granted. following suit the pgi gods made it so that the pinpoint damage of the cerppc would by heavenly decree be nerfed by 5, adding the 5 points back as "ghost splash damage", just like the thought behind every other nerf that the clans get every patch, the pgi gods can't nerf the clan mechwarriors ability to pilot(or maybe they can in the recent skill tree nerf to clan side only) so lets nerf their equipment to compensate. and the overflowing river of tears will dry up for another day, or at least until the next patch.

Thanks for joining for story time, please direct any and all flames to the fireplace i have kindly setup to help keep everyone warm on this cold and snowy evening.

going further with this, that 2.5 "splash" is chipping paint at best. does it add up over time well yes, BUT, since i cant fire more than 2 at a time before i go nova its wasted damage and heat in my opinion. just like a laz vomit mech if im spreading that damage over 3 components then im wasting my shot. all the damage needs to go where im aiming. not spread all over the mech like i like my cheese on my pizza...

[Grus]

i would be quite ok to test out a build where cERPPC does only 10 damage for 10 heat.

[Y E O N N E]

Grus, on 07 March 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

add IS cycles faster than Clan too...

Not the HPPC. It has had a 5 second cooldown for longer than the cERPPC.

Grus, on 07 March 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

i would be quite ok to test out a build where cERPPC does only 10 damage for 10 heat.

Sure. Let's put the IS ERPPC at 5 heat while we're at it.

[BreakinStuff]

Jess Hazen, on 07 March 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

Sooo thats a bit of a strong and also poor reaction as usual. i'm guessing that none of you free thinking IS white knights who jump on the chance to hurl insults, were there and/or were even capable of comprehending the original reason as to why the cerppc was given the exquisite ability to do splash damage(or as i like to call it, ghost damage. because it counts on the scoreboard but its not really worth anything). No? Well allow me to enlighten you, so please take a load off and join me by the fireplace for story time.

So the fact that almost every single clan weapon at the time enjoyed a tonnage, crit slot, heat AND damage advantage combined over the IS mech equipment in what was supposed to be a competitive shooter and theoretically fun even for the players of the IS mechs had nothing to do with it?

So you think it is perfectly reasonable for PGI to obsolete the entire IS line with no recourse but "Should have bought Clan mechs" when the original premise of clan mechs was they couldn't focus fire because "Clan Honor" and had to stay within the weapon envelope of their opponents as much as they were aware of it?

So you're saying that PGI should never have tried to balance Inner sphere and clan to some parity in a first person shooter version because... reasons?

The IS white knights, as you so ineptly call them, are still usually the losers in equal-tonnage brawls except for on specific chassis that can handle the volume of fire output by clan mechs with their more efficient weapons, space efficiency, tonnage efficiency and plethora of hardpoints to choose from.

Keep crying about the white knights there Bunky.

Edited by BreakinStuff, 07 March 2018 - 01:29 PM.

[LordNothing]

im not particularly fond of the new is ppcs. except maybe the lppc since i can cram it into more mechs that i couldnt normally run ppcs on. the snub is too hot for its role, the standard ppc is ok for when you dont want the heat of an erppc. the hppc is just a bigger std ppc thats not really worth taking without quirks. i spent several games in a k2 yesterday not getting kmdds with two of them. i eventually gave up and stuck some uac10s on it. had my kmdds in 3 games.

meanwhile the clan has the perfect ppc, lighter, more damage in the form of splash. its actually handy when you want to hit that cherry ct but hes twisted so you cant hit it. just shoot the st and let the splash bleed through. pop his core that way. but even as good as it is, you never take it because clan laser vomit can easily outperform it in terms of heat efficiency and damage.

kinda think the is erppc should get splash or a couple extra damage points. heat needs to come down on the snub. the snub and std should all have its gh limit bumped to 4 and the light should be bumped to 5.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 March 2018 - 02:29 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Jess Hazen, on 07 March 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

Once upon a time it was determined by the pgi gods whom the white knights of mwo worship that for no other reason but the fact that 15 points of pinpoint damage in the hands of a clan pilot was too much and in order to soothe the loudest and most heavily overrun river of tears which for some reason always belongs to these white knights, that their wishes naturally would be granted. following suit the pgi gods made it so that the pinpoint damage of the cerppc would by heavenly decree be nerfed by 5, adding the 5 points back as "ghost splash damage"

Yep, that's why no weapon in MWO was ever allowed to deal more than 10 pinpoint damage.

...

Wait a minute!

Grus, on 07 March 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

i would be quite ok to test out a build where cERPPC does only 10 damage for 10 heat.

Can I interest you in an EERPPC? Just lower the heat a little first.

LordNothing, on 07 March 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

the snub and std should all have its gh limit bumped to 4 and the light should be bumped to 5.

The PPC/SNPPC/ERPPC (even the Clan one) should be raised to GH of 3, since they're GH inked with Gauss now anyway
LPPC should be at least GH of 4, I would love GH of 6
HPPC stays GH of 2

[Jess Hazen]

I suppose that all of those special weapons quirks that they gave to all mechs to bring them on par with others even out the massive discrepancy between tech didn't do enough for you? One really stood out to me it was the thunderbolt 9s or one of the tdr's at least, and it had stupid stupid quirks where its medium pulse lasers fired off with no duration, you really did not want to see that thing, i assume that instant duration on the medium pulse was intended to compensate for lack of skill because there is no other exploitation for that chassis to be so powerful. It is like salt in the wound to watch pgi try and balance things on every end with no no basis and no balance in sight then you guys try and defend it. Realize that IS is the meta and that it is the meta because people like you constantly cry about balance. You do realize that clan tech has more or less been nerfed into the ground to compensate for you right?

[LordNothing]

Jay Leon Hart, on 07 March 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

The PPC/SNPPC/ERPPC (even the Clan one) should be raised to GH of 3, since they're GH inked with Gauss now anyway
LPPC should be at least GH of 4, I would love GH of 6
HPPC stays GH of 2

2 is ok for hppc, lppc as high as 6 would be awesome, but maybe a little too awesome.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Jess Hazen, on 07 March 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

One really stood out to me it was the thunderbolt 9s or one of the tdr's at least, and it had stupid stupid quirks where its medium pulse lasers fired off with no duration, you really did not want to see that thing

I do miss that TDR, it could compete with TBRs, back when TBRs were the best Clan Heavy. I also miss the over-quirked BL-KNTs, who could also compete with TBRs on an even footing.

Jess Hazen, on 07 March 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

Realize that IS is the meta and that it is the meta because people like you constantly cry about balance. You do realize that clan tech has more or less been nerfed into the ground to compensate for you right?

Lying to yourself doesn't make ClanTech any less powerful.

[BreakinStuff]

Jess Hazen, on 07 March 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

You do realize that clan tech has more or less been nerfed into the ground to compensate for you right?

The Faction Warfare map says otherwise.

It's a very simple thought process: So long as clan and IS mechs are fielded in the same matches together in identical numbers, there must be parity, and there can be no clear superiority of one or the other.

Otherwise the message is: "HAH! Should have bought clan mech packs."

Edited by BreakinStuff, 07 March 2018 - 02:57 PM.

[Grus]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 March 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

Not the HPPC. It has had a 5 second cooldown for longer than the cERPPC.



Sure. Let's put the IS ERPPC at 5 heat while we're at it.

"Not the HPPC. It has had a 5 second cooldown for longer than the cERPPC" could have sworn PGI upped the cd to 5 secs for cERPPC

"Sure. Let's put the IS ERPPC at 5 heat while we're at it." <---- that makes no sense..

10+2.5+2.5=15 total damage (only 10 effective) for 14.5 heat so just slightly less heat per damage. All i was asking is a removal of the "splash" so just 10 damage for 10 heat. a 1 for 1...

[Jess Hazen]

map says otherwise because you guys are more numerous and less organized, you should read the tips about units being sought after in the loading screen.

[Grus]

Jay Leon Hart, on 07 March 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

Can I interest you in an EERPPC? Just lower the heat a little first.

I will not use a weapon made from the no name clan... (RP)

i dont even know if thats cannon is it?

[Grus]

BreakinStuff, on 07 March 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

The Faction Warfare map says otherwise.

It's a very simple thought process: So long as clan and IS mechs are fielded in the same matches together in identical numbers, there must be parity, and there can be no clear superiority of one or the other.

Otherwise the message is: "HAH! Should have bought clan mech packs."

I dont know if its a population problem or a pilot problem or a tech problem. The map, in my opinion, is swayed from time to time by mercs switching sides. there have been matches where i honestly though i could have come under toned and still won a match. then there are the times i wanna take a few shots before a drop because i just seen in chat 5 guys very happy that they finnaly got 4 mechs to make a deck and its their first time doing FP...

so i really dont like to use the map as a measure.

plus lets not forget that if IS is just stomping the daylights out of a planet and then has to go to bed, all clan needs to do for the next hour is get a few wins to get the bar over to capture and boom, forward progress.

[Lykaon]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 March 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

Not the HPPC. It has had a 5 second cooldown for longer than the cERPPC.

Pretty sure they both have a 5 second cooldown.

4 seconds for I.S. light,snubnose,standard PPC and ER-PPC
5 seconds for H-PPC and C-ER-PPC

Edited by Lykaon, 07 March 2018 - 03:25 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Nema Nabojiv, on 07 March 2018 - 06:26 AM, said:

The thing mechlabwarriors dont understand, is that PPCs are a weapon which cant be effectively paired with pretty much anything

Not true, they pair well with ACs.

[Grus]

The6thMessenger, on 07 March 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

Not true, they pair well with ACs.

IDK about Clan ACs due to the fire hose effect they have but IS works well.

Edited by Grus, 07 March 2018 - 03:27 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Grus, on 07 March 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

"Not the HPPC. It has had a 5 second cooldown for longer than the cERPPC" could have sworn PGI upped the cd to 5 secs for cERPPC

Lykaon, on 07 March 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

Pretty sure they both have a 5 second cooldown.

4 seconds for I.S. light,snubnose,standard PPC and ER-PPC
5 seconds for H-PPC and C-ER-PPC

They do both have 5 seconds, but that wasn't in dispute. I was merely stating that the HPPC has had that cooldown for longer than the cERPPC. HPPC got it while MWOWC17 was still under way, cERPPC got it after MWOWC17 had concluded.

Quote

"Sure. Let's put the IS ERPPC at 5 heat while we're at it." <---- that makes no sense..

10+2.5+2.5=15 total damage (only 10 effective) for 14.5 heat so just slightly less heat per damage. All i was asking is a removal of the "splash" so just 10 damage for 10 heat. a 1 for 1...

It was a joke, meant to draw attention to two things:

1. There is no weapon with a worse damage-to-heat ratio than the IS ERPPC
2. Even if the extra damage is splash, it's still extra damage and can't be discounted so hard that the cERPPC deals only a half point of heat more than a standard PPC while being lighter, smaller, having more range, having more velocity, and having no min range.

[Nema Nabojiv]

The6thMessenger, on 07 March 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

Not true, they pair well with ACs.

They dont unless you shoot them once per match

They do pair with LBX though, but then you shoot them twice per match.

[Grus]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 March 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

They do both have 5 seconds, but that wasn't in dispute. I was merely stating that the HPPC has had that cooldown for longer than the cERPPC. HPPC got it while MWOWC17 was still under way, cERPPC got it after MWOWC17 had concluded.



It was a joke, meant to draw attention to two things:

1. There is no weapon with a worse damage-to-heat ratio than the IS ERPPC
2. Even if the extra damage is splash, it's still extra damage and can't be discounted so hard that the cERPPC deals only a half point of heat more than a standard PPC while being lighter, smaller, having more range, having more velocity, and having no min range.

Ahh ok i see where you go mixed up. my cycle faster comment was direct at Jess when he was talking about the early changes to cERPPC. so kinda out of context. But back to HPPC vs cERPPC

So yes the CD is the same NOW, so lets keep the thought line there. Trying to compare these to is like comparing a rifle to a shotgun (with said shotgun dealing no damage until 90m). the cERPPC deals 10 PP damage while the HPPC deals 15, fact. cERPPC deals "splash" damage 2.5 to left and right components. fact.

BTW question. if i only hit the arm does that mean that the side torso only gets 2.5 damage and the other 2.5 just dosnt apply?

So my reasoning that i despise the splash damage is the same reason i dont like LRM's its not direct damage done to the spot im aiming at. Thus, wasted heat and wasted damage.

so as of right now clan has no hppc, that would enable us to do a fair comparison but right now we are comparing apples to mango's. now if we want to do a a stop gap and mess around with clan erppc then fine. but cERPPC shouldn't try to do the same thing as HPPC