41 replies to this topic

[Curccu]

Lykaon, on 11 January 2018 - 05:45 AM, said:

No joke a pair of Piranhas with the model 1 and 2 working together will be murderous to any isolated mech.

The Piranha-2 uses a 2 weapon group salvo with 6 ER-smalls per group dishing 60 damage in under 2 seconds (with burn duration skills) striping off all the armor from even large assault mech legs and the Piranha-1 just saws it off by chewing off the internals. It's even grimmer for rear torso hits (legs however can not be easily pivoted out of arc and a legged assault is pretty much a gonner)

Just have 2 hero piranhas and both mechs have MGs and Lazors, 10 DHS well spent... on both mechs

edit: Also pretty much any decent two light mechs will murder pretty much any one isolated mech.

Edited by Curccu, 11 January 2018 - 06:04 AM.

[Cyrion]

vonJerg, on 11 January 2018 - 05:56 AM, said:

Well, they could go the way they went with gauss and limit the number of mg's that can be fired simultaniously. But, I would rather like them to add an IS counterpart, so both sides of the fence can have their share of the "fun".

The Urbie R60 is way more effective with MGs than even the Crit Lynx. Cause, ya know, it has the armor of a 70 tonner. The Lynx's arms fall off if someone sneezes in your general direction. You have to play ultra safe with that mech. With the Urbie? I just waddle up to people's faces and mow them down.

2 MPL
4 HMGs

Max your armor tree, pick up speed tweak, and then make sure to grab the mag cap nodes in the firepower tree. And I'm not kidding, just walk at people and stand right in front of them. Go nose to nose. As long as you don't have multiple mechs shooting at you, you're going to win any 1v1. The HMGs wreck armor when you're in optimal. Once you get past their armor, it's over. And most people freak out and can't fire back effectively when they've got MGs pelting them in the face from 1m away.

Only played 15 games with it so far. Been leveling it up from 0 skill points in the wasteland that is Solo Queue. These are my stats:
URBANMECH UM-R60 15 9 6 1.50 31 8 3.88

Edited by Cyrion, 11 January 2018 - 07:30 AM.

[Rayden Wolf]

Lykaon, on 11 January 2018 - 05:45 AM, said:

No joke a pair of Piranhas with the model 1 and 2 working together will be murderous to any isolated mech.

The Piranha-2 uses a 2 weapon group salvo with 6 ER-smalls per group dishing 60 damage in under 2 seconds (with burn duration skills) striping off all the armor from even large assault mech legs and the Piranha-1 just saws it off by chewing off the internals. It's even grimmer for rear torso hits (legs however can not be easily pivoted out of arc and a legged assault is pretty much a gonner)

I think the B will be my favorite. 6E and 4B is enough to cause havoc. With ER-Micros you wouldnt even need aditional heatsinks i think. But thats for real knife fighting

[Metus regem]

Lykaon, on 11 January 2018 - 12:47 AM, said:

Um...whut?

Table top Battletech? or some other game I assume some other game because MGs in battletech use no such mechanic.

No there is an optional rule for MG's where they can be set to rapid fire, they chew up more ammo, but can dump out a ton more damage.... It can get ugly...

[Alex Morgaine]

6 hmg on a king crab with low heat weapons is fun though, i mean if your gonna have to push to your doom, style matters...

[Jackal Noble]

Since we are on-the-go topic of MGs what is the actual margin of spread or difference of spread between IS and Clan MGs?
Esp since the Clan MGs got nerfed a patch ago, for weighing less.
Is difference of spread (like .2 in some cases iirc) really noticeable at farther range but not close, or equally bad at all ranges?

[FupDup]

JackalBeast, on 11 January 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:

Since we are on-the-go topic of MGs what is the actual margin of spread or difference of spread between IS and Clan MGs?
Esp since the Clan MGs got nerfed a patch ago, for weighing less.
Is difference of spread (like .2 in some cases iirc) really noticeable at farther range but not close, or equally bad at all ranges?

Spread is based on a cone-shaped pattern, so as you get closer the cone radius gets smaller.

[Jackal Noble]

FupDup, on 11 January 2018 - 04:59 PM, said:

Spread is based on a cone-shaped pattern, so as you get closer the cone radius gets smaller.

You would think

[Revis Volek]

FupDup, on 10 January 2018 - 07:38 PM, said:

Noe.

I wish that MGs could just have a hard-coded damage bonus against structure, and then they'd lose most of their critting abilities in the process. The time it takes to kill someone would remain approximately the same, but the person getting shot would at least get to retain their weapon loadout longer and thus not feel as defenseless (getting all your guns spread across your whole body critted out in about 2-3 seconds sucks).

Otherwise just increase the health on most items. Stuff gets deleted too quickly, even when using the supposedly "tough" IS equipment.

I personally think they should make the structure nodes in the tree add health to weapons. Not much but why let the mech get stronger if it weapons die just the same? Kinda defeats the purpose

[FupDup]

Revis Volek, on 11 January 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

I personally think they should make the structure nodes in the tree add health to weapons. Not much but why let the mech get stronger if it weapons die just the same? Kinda defeats the purpose

It would make more sense to lump that feature into Reinforced Casing, which currently only offers a paltry -1% crit chance for incoming fire.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 11 January 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

It would make more sense to lump that feature into Reinforced Casing, which currently only offers a paltry -1% crit chance for incoming fire.

Of which, I ignore all possible...like most of the filler nodes in the Shrub


I can't imagine if they'd all be made useful to some degree

[Brain Cancer]

Lykaon, on 11 January 2018 - 12:47 AM, said:

Um...whut?

Table top Battletech? or some other game I assume some other game because MGs in battletech use no such mechanic.

Someone needs to read their copy of Tactical Operations. Page 104, MGs in high ROF mode roll 1d6 when fired, generating that much heat, dealing that much damage, and expending 3x the roll in ammo.

Curccu, on 11 January 2018 - 01:49 AM, said:

tabletop solution like same DPS as AC2?

See above.

They can actually get better, since in high-ROF mode an MG can gnaw away 1d6 per hit, rather than a flat 2. (1d6-1 for LMG (min 1), 1d6+1 for HMG on high-ROF mode)

Metus regem, on 11 January 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

No there is an optional rule for MG's where they can be set to rapid fire, they chew up more ammo, but can dump out a ton more damage.... It can get ugly...

Actually makes MGs dangerous knife-fighting weaponry, more so in lights that are oversinked normally. Even old 3025-era Stingers and Locusts become far more respectable damage dealers.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 11 January 2018 - 11:42 PM.

[Curccu]

Never gonna happen...
6MG Spider would really core atlas in two seconds?

[SOL Ranger]

Stop this madness. No more ridiculous jam mechanics, the ones in the game already are cancer beyond belief.

The issue at hand is how to get PGI to recognise that they need to look at replacing those dysfunctional and polarised mechanics with meaningful mechanics. No amount of spreadsheet warrior balancing will solve the weapon issues when their underlying function determines why they are dysfunctional and polarised to begin with.

There are many ways near rudimentary mechanics changes coupled with more grey area inducing properties changes can make very involving and fun new non-polarised weapon systems, this for all kinds of mech weight classes to boot. That is what we want PGI to go after, that applies to all kinds of weapons.

[PocketYoda]

Make them do the same as an AC 2 like they should do and no at this time people only put machine guns on a mech because they have no other options after all the better weapons have been added.. Seriously they are as useless as **** on a bull..

Its an after thought weapon.

Got enough issues with the ******** RNG jamming on other weapons last thing we need is more stupidity..

Edited by Samial, 12 January 2018 - 01:21 AM.

[Curccu]

Samial, on 12 January 2018 - 01:20 AM, said:

Make them do the same as an AC 2 like they should do and no at this time people only put machine guns on a mech because they have no other options after all the better weapons have been added.. Seriously they are as useless as **** on a bull..

Its an after thought weapon.

Got enough issues with the ******** RNG jamming on other weapons last thing we need is more stupidity..

ATM MGs are not useless, but wouldn't take less than 4 of them.

[BenAran]

better solution: remove jam bar from other stuff.
Seriously though:
MGs are fine the way they are, what needs to be overhauled is the crit system and how, if you are unlucky, an entire torso full of equipment can be gone in half a second.

My proposal:
Crit stays the way it is, but the stuff it can attack does not.
it will be tied to how worn down your part is.
For example: You have 6 ML in a side torso.
the more damage your torso takes, the more lasers get "unlocked" to be destroyed.
so, the health percentage of your sidetorso that houses 2 DHS and 6 ML (just as an example) now gets divided by 8 (because 8 components)
Then, up until your torso is at 87.5% HP, only ONE of your components can be critted out.
So, it is theoretically possible to lose one laser almost instantly, but to lose more than one from just a bit of stray MG bullets is far less likely.
Additionally you can narrow down this kind of percentage.
like, no component can die before the Torso hits 90% and at 30%, everything is "unlocked".
Obviously, the rule still applies, so in our example that would be 60% divided by 8, so in steps of 7.5% you unlock one component after the other. Obviously,this system is not perfect, but it would certainly get rid of these "dafuq, my ST is bright yellow and I got no weapons left in it?!" moments.

[Nema Nabojiv]

BenAran, on 12 January 2018 - 04:45 AM, said:

Obviously, the rule still applies, so in our example that would be 60% divided by 8, so in steps of 7.5% you unlock one component after the other. Obviously,this system is not perfect, but it would certainly get rid of these "dafuq, my ST is bright yellow and I got no weapons left in it?!" moments.

Not much point in killing components a second before you blow the entire thing off.

[ANOM O MECH]

I was not having fun when the 8mg Cheetah and Lynx were dropped.

The adjustment they did two or three patches ago toned that down a bit, which in my opinion (or level of potato) was just enough that I feel like I have a solid chance against them without insta weapons loss.

Think you have to ask yourself if they are really OP or are they just finally now effective and useful?

Edited by tker 669, 12 January 2018 - 08:11 AM.

[Water Bear]

I mean yea, they crit fast, but out damaging a small laser is not an impressive achievement. They still do jack-squat damage wise. I've never found myself getting hit with MGs and having armor left and thinking it was anything except a mild annoyance. Most of the time, if I'm getting pinged with MGs and my armor's up, I just ignore it. Got bigger fish to fry.