16 replies to this topic

[PocketYoda]

But no one plays it because they can't spam lrms and its too hot so no one picks it and strangely enough its never in the map rotation..

Lower its heat and this map would be a lot more popular maybe lower the tree density a little as well might open up options etc


I think if you add some cool tunnels networks through some of the larger terrain it would open up new strategies and combat scenarios.

[BTGbullseye]

I get nearly 15% of my matches going to Bog... (in the last 3 months that is) It's in the rotation very often, nearly 40% of the time. I've never heard anyone complain about the map itself once in-game.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 12 January 2018 - 10:55 PM.

[PocketYoda]

BTGbullseye, on 12 January 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

I get nearly 15% of my matches going to Bog... (in the last 3 months that is) It's in the rotation very often, nearly 40% of the time. I've never heard anyone complain about the map itself once in-game.

Sure you do...

[BTGbullseye]

Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant.

Just save up your vote multipliers, and vote for Bog any time it comes around, you'll get quite a few runs through it. (almost always has at least 2 other people voting for it when it rolls through)

[Void Angel]

Samial, on 12 January 2018 - 12:17 AM, said:

But no one plays it because they can't spam lrms and its too hot so no one picks it and strangely enough its never in the map rotation..

Lower its heat and this map would be a lot more popular maybe lower the tree density a little as well might open up options etc


I think if you add some cool tunnels networks through some of the larger terrain it would open up new strategies and combat scenarios.

BTGbullseye, on 13 January 2018 - 10:22 PM, said:

Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant.

Just save up your vote multipliers, and vote for Bog any time it comes around, you'll get quite a few runs through it. (almost always has at least 2 other people voting for it when it rolls through)

Your playing time, Tier, and server choices will make a difference in what maps your fellow players vote for, since you are playing with a different cross-section of the player base based on those factors.

Interestingly enough, I love both Viridian Bog and Polar Highlands - and for the exact same reason. Viridian Bog is, in fact a sort of precursor map to Polar Highlands. Obviously the terrain and temperature have a lot of differences, but they share a very important commonality: both maps punish camping against an enemy that knows how to move.

In Viridian Bog, cover consists primarily of the buttes and flat-topped ridges dotting the the map, particularly in the center of the map around the D5-E6 square. If you camp at D5, for example, a team that flanks around to E5 (or bypasses you completely via the bog proper) will be able peek out of cover and hit you in enfilade. It's still possible to camp if you're much better shots than the enemy, or if they camp back at you, but a good team will beat you down pretty well.

Polar Highlands includes the same general mechanic: the entire map consists of long, low cover with a concealed route to get to just about anywhere you want to go. The only real weakness of Polar is that its cover just isn't tall enough to block LRMs, forcing you to be aggressive in countering enemy scouts and moving to attack LRM-heavy teams. And since LRM boats love to vote Polar, you get LRM jockeys there a lot, so the randomness of team composition can lead to frustrating combinations (e.g. they have Lights and you don't.) Still, the primary difficulty with both maps is that players can be so used to older maps, with their relatively static, camper-style gameplay (Camping Canyon Network, for example,) that they simply don't recognize what needs to be done in those environments.

Edited by Void Angel, 14 January 2018 - 09:00 PM.

[Van mw]

Tier 1. See it maybe every 10th map select. Play even less, single map I vote for at all. I don't care about map/mode, but Viridian is so rare I vote for it.

[Spare Parts Bin]

I too enjoy Virdian Bog as well as Alpine Peaks,Crimson Straights,The Mining Collective,and HPG Manifold.

[Rehl]

I prefer the old forest colony... that had a cool tunnel. Don't care for the new forest map.

[Daggett]

Void Angel, on 14 January 2018 - 04:47 PM, said:

both maps punish camping against an enemy that knows how to move.

In my experience this applies to all maps. When i lose a match it's most of the time because the reds have been more active/aggressive than my team.

For example F8 on Plexus when starting in the east (10-line) is one of the meanest camping-traps in the whole game. People love to sit behind the ridge-cover until they get surrounded by the enemy which then also have the high ground. And on domination its even worse.

Rehl, on 15 January 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

I prefer the old forest colony... that had a cool tunnel. Don't care for the new forest map.

Ahh, old forest colony and the tunnel of love... good times...

Edited by Daggett, 16 January 2018 - 04:54 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

Daggett, on 16 January 2018 - 04:53 AM, said:

In my experience this applies to all maps. When i lose a match it's most of the time because the reds have been more active/aggressive than my team.

Playing defensive is only a problem if part of your team is stupid and runs off to be aggressive without the rest of the team. Sticking together is THE most important survival strategy in MWO, with very few exceptions.

[Void Angel]

Within limits. If you're camping a spot just because "that's where we always go," and the enemy does something different, you can get mashed in place even if you all camp together.

On the other hand, while mobility does tend to win battles (if only because of OODA loops,) there are maps where a defensive team can be difficult to dislodge - there's a reason so many campers love Canyon Network. Good marksmanship and local redeployment can allow a camping team to respond to the enemy's mobility; but Polar and Bog actively discourage camping with their design. They're mobility maps - particularly Highlands - and that's a good thing - as well as a new one.

[Daggett]

BTGbullseye, on 16 January 2018 - 10:08 PM, said:

Playing defensive is only a problem if part of your team is stupid and runs off to be aggressive without the rest of the team. Sticking together is THE most important survival strategy in MWO, with very few exceptions.

I agree, but if you are sticking together as an aggressive mobile murderball it's even better for surviving and actually winning.

Sure, defense can work but in my experience the hive-mind of most teams chooses the wrong places to defend and has problems setting up a proper fireline even in T1.
So my advice is to only go defensive if you have a drop-caller who chooses a position which can't be surrounded easily and also enables a nice fireline with a wide killing field in front. But if you don't have a drop-caller or he/she only says 'lets defend' without details and target-calling then the defense will most likely fail.

In that case it's smarter to be or follow the aggressive part of the team. On many maps this often results in nascar of cause but this is still better then trying to defend the wrong position uncoordinated.

The trick to nascar is to stop when the enemy reached a bad position and then force him to fight there. The team that does this better without sacrificing their slow assaults to the nascar usually wins. Of cause nascar is no guarantee to win, but the rough 50% chance you have when both teams do the same is still better than the less than 20% chance you have when being static trying to defend a suboptimal position and allowing the enemy to surround you.

What i wrote may not be true for lower tiers since the opponents may be less aggressive than in higher tiers. So if defense works for you and your win/loss ratio is positive then by all means go on. Just be prepared that on higher tiers aggression and mobility is king and adapt accordingly when you get there.

Edited by Daggett, 17 January 2018 - 01:39 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

Actually, the main problem at lower tiers is that the rest of the team doesn't listen or pay attention to what the team is doing, and dropcallers are ignored.

[Spare Parts Bin]

I am not saying that I am Wyatt Earp or the male counterpart to Natasha K.,etc,etc. I am a tier 5 player. However many of my loses come when I or someone else suggesting a strategy and hearing crickets or worse "I will play my own game.", or the equally brilliant "Let what happens decide."

For some reason people do not understand other than Domination or Assault, most games won Alpine Peaks are won on high ground.

[Void Angel]

"It's my game, I play how I want" is one of my pet peeves. Such sociopaths need to be confined for science, not allowed to waste other peoples' time. =)

[Spare Parts Bin]

Void Angel, on 17 January 2018 - 11:47 PM, said:

"It's my game, I play how I want" is one of my pet peeves. Such sociopaths need to be confined for science, not allowed to waste other peoples' time. =)

Some people have an aversion to working with others. MWO is not an individual effort.

[bcbovee78]

This map is also on my "must vote for" list. Its so fun in any mech I play, and every match is different from the last. I never have trouble with lrms on this map. I know how to use them, and dont rely on my teammates to get locks for me.
The one problem I have, is that slower mechs tend to get stuck in areas that they should be able to travel up or over without issues. I can bump up onto the low building in solaris city and walk on the roofs, but can't step over a small root or climb stairs in the bog. This can get you killed really quick and seems like a bad oversight.
~4 days later....
After playing the new map about 40 times, and running around in it, through training mode, I now put it on my list to avoid. Roots and small trees still snag slower mechs in some places, and climbing up some platforms, you still stop if you arent running full speed or have your legs pointed directly up them. Some of the platforms are onesided, meaning you have to run around them before you can assault the mechs up top. Teams are still going nascar right and if you spawn on one end, the assaults get left behind and run down through the valley by fast mechs. The team that spawns with the low valley to their right has nothing but advantages, and has won almost every game I have been in. Just sad, again, to see a nice map get so bad with "improvements"...

Edited by bcbovee78, 20 October 2021 - 08:28 PM.