30 replies to this topic

[FuzzyNZ]

Why is the best mech behind a paywall?

Questions:
Which hellbringer has the most laser hardpoints?
Which hellbringer has the best heat gen quirk?
Which hellbringer has the most range?

[El Bandito]

Only if you have set of 8 bonuses. And that means you do not have ECM protection, and limited to only 6 energy points. You can easily duplicate max amount of energy points using C-Bill Hellbies. And that makes Virago better than other Hellbringers on FP Polar, Alpine, and Boreal maps only--which makes its advantages very limited in use. I guess you could make limited argument about P2W, but it is very flimsy.

Of course, I will be buying the Virago now that it is available for MC, cause I am a tryhard FP player.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 January 2018 - 10:59 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

FuzzyNZ, on 12 January 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

Why is the best mech behind a paywall?

Questions:
Which hellbringer has the most laser hardpoints?
Which hellbringer has the best heat gen quirk?
Which hellbringer has the most range?

Hellbringer's an omnimech, you can swap the hardpoints with any other variant, some omnipods have their own quirks, others only activate if you use all of the stock omnipods.

In general the Virago gives some new things for a Hellbringer such as that missile arm, but it doesn't really perform better than any other variants running various combinations.

[FuzzyNZ]

How do I build the best hellbringer at laser vomit?

[Humpday]

Wut?
People buy it to farm cbills

[Verilligo]

El Bandito, on 12 January 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

Only if you have set of 8 bonuses. And that means you do not have ECM protection, and limited to only 6 energy points. You can easily duplicate max amount of energy points using C-Bill Hellbies. And that makes Virago better than other Hellbringers on FP Polar and Boreal maps only--which makes it very limited in use. I guess you could make limited argument about P2W, but it is very flimsy.

Of course, I will be buying the Virago now that it is available for MC, cause I am a tryhard FP player.

This is pretty much the truth. I have a Virago set up with 4 ERLL at the moment and while it obviously has real benefits over other HBRs, it's basically only due to the set-of-eight bonuses. It'll outrange pretty much anything else and the heat benefits are great, but bringing that extra range to bear in a meaningful way is pretty fringe. And while ECM has been nerfed a lot, it affords a lot of extra safety in poking if your position isn't already being watched heavily. With the Virago, you have to pick your pokes more carefully, either with several options of cover to rotate around or with enough range that nobody can effectively shoot back.

[Woody Wilson]

FuzzyNZ, on 12 January 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

How do I build the best hellbringer at laser vomit?

I use b33fs build, very happy, can be done on any hellbringer

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

FuzzyNZ, on 12 January 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

How do I build the best hellbringer at laser vomit?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...82d6bdbf4d0a8ec

[FupDup]

The Virago's hardpoints are balanced fine, it's the quirks that are the issue. There is absolutely no reason that it needs to have +10% ER laser range and -10% energy heat on a mech like the Hellbringer. Even though you only have 4 high mounts (and 2 low mounts) instead of the usual 6 high mounts those two quirks are completely undeserved since 4 is still plenty compared to everything else in the game.

Also, losing ECM isn't that big of a deal since ECM has been nerfed. If you don't spend 12 skill points on it then people can see you from around 400-500 meters I think it was? Not worth.

Edited by FupDup, 12 January 2018 - 11:04 AM.

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 12 January 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...82d6bdbf4d0a8ec

That's basically the build I use. There can be some tweaks such as dropping one DHS for TCMK1, for bit more range. Or shaving more leg armor for one more DHS, as long as you poke right.

FupDup, on 12 January 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

The Virago's hardpoints are balanced fine, it's the quirks that are the issue. There is absolutely no reason that it needs to have +10% ER laser range and -10% energy heat on a mech like the Hellbringer. Even though you only have 4 high mounts (and 2 low mounts) instead of the usual 6 high mounts those two quirks are completely undeserved since 4 is still plenty.

Also, losing ECM isn't that big of a deal since ECM has been nerfed. If you don't spend 12 skill points on it then people can see you from around 400-500 meters I think it was? Not worth.

Virago operates best at around 1000 meters away from the enemy. You wouldn't even need nodes to buff the ECM. My regular FP ERLL Hellbies only use one ECM node.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 January 2018 - 11:07 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

FupDup, on 12 January 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

The Virago's hardpoints are balanced fine, it's the quirks that are the issue. There is absolutely no reason that it needs to have +10% ER laser range and -10% energy heat on a mech like the Hellbringer. Even though you only have 4 high mounts (and 2 low mounts) instead of the usual 6 high mounts those two quirks are completely undeserved since 4 is still plenty.

Also, losing ECM isn't that big of a deal since ECM has been nerfed. If you don't spend 12 skill points on it then people can see you from around 400-500 meters I think it was? Not worth.

I guess it deserves quirks in an attempt to compete with the other variants of the chassis. If it had no quirks then there would be absolutely no reason to ever use it compared to the other pods. Would advocate for those dead and forgotten mechs that are worse off than the Virago while still having lower quirks to get good quirks.

ECM is still very useful, spending the 12 points on it isn't really too big of a hit, the whole not being spotted ever thing is worth the <20 points of durability spread all over I'd have gotten in the survival tree instead. Having not been targetted by a single LRM20 already makes up for it. Having not been shot by someone else's 78 point super alpha when you go to shoot yours much more than makes up for it.

[Mcgral18]

It's pretty much standard for the Heroes to do something better
Deathstrike
SadCat
and the Loki being current ones


Extra damage, extra MG, and extra quirks, for limited sacrifice.


PGI's incentive to pay for advantages
The same it's been for years (up until they get nerfed into uselessness, and the cycle begins anew)

[FupDup]

Dakota1000, on 12 January 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

I guess it deserves quirks in an attempt to compete with the other variants of the chassis. If it had no quirks then there would be absolutely no reason to ever use it compared to the other pods. Would advocate for those dead and forgotten mechs that are worse off than the Virago while still having lower quirks to get good quirks.

ECM is still very useful, spending the 12 points on it isn't really too big of a hit, the whole not being spotted ever thing is worth the <20 points of durability spread all over I'd have gotten in the survival tree instead. Having not been targetted by a single LRM20 already makes up for it. Having not been shot by someone else's 78 point super alpha when you go to shoot yours much more than makes up for it.

The Virago first only existed to add the RT pod with 2E, but since the forums called that out on being P2W PGI then added a C-Bill version of the 2E-RT.

It still has the unique double missile arm, which may not be very meta-friendly right now but it's still something. You could combine it with the Alt-B double missile torso and make yourself a Splatbringer that has ECM coverage if you really want that (or, alternatively, pugs would turn it into a Lurmbringer).

Why use it in general? Because it's a hero mech. The primary benefits are supposed to be convenience (faster earnings) and vanity (looking unique). Heroes offering altered combat performance has over the course of this game's life span caused a lot of heroes to be either Pay 2 Win (e.g. Dragon Slayer during its glory days) or Pay 2 Lose (lol Pretty Baby).

Edited by FupDup, 12 January 2018 - 11:14 AM.

[Appogee]

There are now several Hero Mechs which have better quirks, hardpoints or other advantages vs their free to play alternatives.

PGI decommitted to their previously admirable stance on non-Hero equality about two years ago.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Appogee, on 12 January 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

There are now several Hero Mechs which have better quirks, hardpoints or other advantages vs their free to play alternatives.

PGI decommitted to their previously admirable stance on non-Hero equality about two years ago.

The Clan Wave II & III "Pay-2-Win" Hero fiasco was handled well, though.

[Mcgral18]

Jay Leon Hart, on 12 January 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

The Clan Wave II & III "Pay-2-Win" Hero fiasco was handled well, though.

I still want my 7 MG 2 HLL SadCat

Next sale...Soon™
Totally worth 5% laser duration

[Mole]

What is this? Tier 1, member since 2012, and asking scrub questions like "what is the best mech"? Anyone who plays this game long enough to be in tier 1 should know that the way this game works this is no simple "best mech". You gotta find your own groove.

[FupDup]

Mole, on 12 January 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

What is this? Tier 1, member since 2012, and asking scrub questions like "what is the best mech"? Anyone who plays this game long enough to be in tier 1 should know that the way this game works this is no simple "best mech". You gotta find your own groove.

Yes and no...

Each specific "groove" tends to have a best mech in it, e.g. if your groove is poptarting in heavy mechs the best choice is the 2 ERPPC Summoner hands down.

[Mole]

FupDup, on 12 January 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

Yes and no...

Each specific "groove" tends to have a best mech in it, e.g. if your groove is poptarting in heavy mechs the best choice is the 2 ERPPC Summoner hands down.

Be that as it may, it's still very confusing to see a tier 1 player that apparently has no understanding of how to build a simple laser vomit omnimech and has to ask the forums how to do it best.

Edited by Mole, 12 January 2018 - 01:05 PM.

[Water Bear]

Mole, on 12 January 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

What is this? Tier 1, member since 2012, and asking scrub questions like "what is the best mech"? Anyone who plays this game long enough to be in tier 1 should know that the way this game works this is no simple "best mech". You gotta find your own groove.

Mole, on 12 January 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

Be that as it may, it's still very confusing to see a tier 1 player that apparently has no understanding of how to build a simple laser vomit omnimech and has to ask the forums how to do it best.

The question was rhetorical. He was trying to get other posters to think about which Hellbringer is the best at laser vomit, and realize his conclusion: The Virago.

Edited by Water Bear, 12 January 2018 - 01:08 PM.