137 replies to this topic

[Nema Nabojiv]

In light of IS omnis discussion, and the fact most IS omnis have XL engines. How do we all feel about removing instadeath on ST destruction to make omnies viable?

POLL HERE

[Bombast]

There's pretty much two ways to instantly 'fix' IS Omnis with XLs - Make them survive ST destruction, or monster ST Structure Quirks (I mean monster - The kinds of structure quirks we've never seen before).

I think if they were going to make IS XLs function like Clan XLs, they would have done it ages ago, certainly before LFEs became a thing.

[FupDup]

I'd prefer a "different but equal" solution that makes the IS XL as worthy as the CXL without making it a slightly bulkier reskin. To that end I think that the IS XL should increase the side torso structure and armor to equal the center torso's health, making the shoulder check less of a TTK shortcut than just coring out the mech.

If that's beyond PGI's ability though then ST survival would be fine.

[K O Z A K]

They'd basically have to in order to bring in IS omnis, they'd also have to do a full review and overhaul of all the IS quirks

[Mcgral18]

Hazeclaw, on 16 January 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

They'd basically have to in order to bring in IS omnis, they'd also have to do a full review and overhaul of all the IS quirks

The day a Spheroid robot could compete with a Clam robot, unquirked, would be remarkable.

[Brizna]

What about STD engines then? What would they be good for? Probably no one cares, and possibly having them be what "single heat sinks are to heat sinks (useless) wouldn't be so bad compared to game balance, but still it makes me sad leaving another piece of equipment completely useless.

[K O Z A K]

Mcgral18, on 16 January 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

The day a Spheroid robot could compete with a Clam robot, unquirked, would be remarkable.

I don't see all quirks being removed, but IS XL = Clan XL would certainly be a very significant change in balance that would require an overview of all the qurks

[Nema Nabojiv]

I also want to point out that if this happens, Light engines will certainly see a lot less usage but wont be rendered useless, as you still have to go with LFE for torso mounted UAC20 or two UAC5

[sycocys]

Just add +1 heat sink slot to IS XL up to 275 and +2 to 300 and up.

[Bombast]

sycocys, on 16 January 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

Just add +1 heat sink slot to IS XL up to 275 and +2 to 300 and up.

Omnimech engines are locked, heat sink wise.

[Y E O N N E]

Hazeclaw, on 16 January 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

I don't see all quirks being removed, but IS XL = Clan XL would certainly be a very significant change in balance that would require an overview of all the qurks

Less than you might think. Most IS 'Mechs are already running the best firepower and cooling they could hope to with current equipment thanks to slot locking (localized to a component or the whole 'Mech), so all you are gaining by going to XL is roughly 10 kph across the board. Even laser vomit builds, which formerly would have benefit mightily from being able to swap LLs to LPLs, no longer care because 1 point of damage is whatever.

[Fox the Apprentice]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 January 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

Less than you might think. Most IS 'Mechs are already running the best firepower and cooling they could hope to with current equipment thanks to slot locking (localized to a component or the whole 'Mech), so all you are gaining by going to XL is roughly 10 kph across the board. Even laser vomit builds, which formerly would have benefit mightily from being able to swap LLs to LPLs, no longer care because 1 point of damage is whatever.

10 KPH would still be nice, though.

[Y E O N N E]

Fox the Apprentice, on 16 January 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

10 KPH would still be nice, though.

It would, but I do not think it's a night-and-day difference.

Prior to LFE, XL not exploding would be amazing. Now? Eeeeeh...

Non-explosive XLs stacked with the durability on a select few chassis might be pretty gross (e.g. BSW, WLF), but overall I don't think you'll find much difference. But, hey, I could be wrong.

[sycocys]

Bombast, on 16 January 2018 - 04:22 PM, said:

Omnimech engines are locked, heat sink wise.

There's no reason they have to be if it creates a better situation for the game.

[Tarl Cabot]

Bombast, on 16 January 2018 - 03:53 PM, said:

There's pretty much two ways to instantly 'fix' IS Omnis with XLs - Make them survive ST destruction, or monster ST Structure Quirks (I mean monster - The kinds of structure quirks we've never seen before).

I think if they were going to make IS XLs function like Clan XLs, they would have done it ages ago, certainly before LFEs became a thing.

Not necessarily. Each time they added or increased the cXL non-lethal penalties there was always the remark of introducing a fully functional engine crit system but it never happened. Then with the release of the Skill Tree Chris said that afterwards they would be reviewing providing the isXL the same benefits as the cXL/surviving the loss of a side torso but nada.

As for LFE, reduce the penalties while giving the isXL slightly bigger penalties than the current cXL/LFE, as it is losing 25% of the shielding instead of 20%. Even the TT rules, before Star League/Clan tech, STD engines were 6 crit slots in the CT and they were losing 50% of their shielding before the engine scrammed. Of course with it being a board game w/dice there was not need to change or modify the engine crit system since it simply provided more opportunities for crits in the side torsos. As a reminder for non-TT, mechwarriors had battlecomputers that brought weapons to bear and provided a firing tone when there was a high probability for a hit on a mech, not that the weapons would hit the same pixel.....

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 16 January 2018 - 05:00 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Inner Sphere Warrior Online

[Mole]

Well we could have IS XL engines survive a ST destruction but perhaps with an even steeper speed penalty than a clan XL or a LFE?

[Jackal Noble]

Mole, on 16 January 2018 - 05:01 PM, said:

Well we could have IS XL engines survive a ST destruction but perhaps with an even steeper speed penalty than a clan XL or a LFE?

That's gonna ruffle some feathers. Come on you know better Mole.

Just give IS XL equivalent penalties. LFE half of that. And Std goes faster upon side torso loss, lol. It's a twist!

[Tarl Cabot]

Mole, on 16 January 2018 - 05:01 PM, said:

Well we could have IS XL engines survive a ST destruction but perhaps with an even steeper speed penalty than a clan XL or a LFE?

cXL 20% movement, drop heat penalty to 30% (PGI did raise it up from 20% to 40%.. it could be backed off some)
LFE 10% movement, heat penalty 15% or 20% (added 20% cause tis PGI....)
isXL 25% movement, heat penalty 40% (it was good enough for Clans but then IS can not fit as many DHS 3 (IS) vs 2 (Clan) crits slots)

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 16 January 2018 - 05:14 PM.

[Formosa The God]

if they remove insta die, then they would need to buff every other engine, otherwise I would just always take XL.