46 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Incursion:
Instead of whoever gets the last hit on a mobile base gets all the money, how about we give everyone on the team a bit. At the very least everyone who damages it should get something.

Nothing says great team play as much as watching someone whittle down the HP to 2% and then have the guy standing next to him waiting to alpha the last of it.

More rewards for batteries, absolutely.

Escort:
Protect rewards given out for fighting near the VIP like they are for fighting near each other. Decent ones too. This mode has a lot of problems but there is no incentive to actually defend the VIP instead of running off and skirmishing.



Conquest:
More rewards for capping. Not just on capture but the ticking that happens as you stand on it. Fighting around a point should give everyone doing it a bonus.



Assault:

Waaaaay more reward per tick of capturing, as it stands now if you're a light mech and you cap to win you're getting next to nothing compared to if you had just ignored the point and fought. Fighting over a point should give both sides a reward as they're fighting.


Invasion:
Gun gens and door gens should give rewards to the whole team, not just the last guy who hit them. (El Bandito suggestion)





Make all damage to structures and turrets count towards the total damage of the match. (Phoolan Devi)



I think this would help incentivise the objectives enough to make it more valuable for everyone, especially light mechs.

Edited by Xetelian, 18 January 2018 - 08:15 AM.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Xetelian, good post. Sometimes it seems what it takes to win a game and what pays is inversely proportional.

Incursion: I have never understood 2 opposing armed factions having established fixed bases of operation essentially on top of each other. Like the CW mission one side is the defender and the other is the attacker.

[El Bandito]

Invasion map generators (both the gate gens and the gun gens) should give huge C-Bill rewards, as well. Not just for the guy who got the last shot, but for the entire team.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 January 2018 - 08:52 PM.

[Xetelian]

Not a very popular thread, you'd think more people would be bumping this thread in support of getting more rewards and more cBills.


The main take away for me is that if you play to the objective you get absolutely screwed out of cBills and XP.

I highly doubt that behavior will change to such a degree that everyone is rushing bases and ignoring the enemy. I feel a little more strategy and tactics would come from something like this.

At least on conquest and incursion, light mechs that are doing a good job keeping to the objectives get very little to show for it.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Xetelian, on 17 January 2018 - 11:06 PM, said:

Not a very popular thread, you'd think more people would be bumping this thread in support of getting more rewards and more cBills.


The main take away for me is that if you play to the objective you get absolutely screwed out of cBills and XP.

I highly doubt that behavior will change to such a degree that everyone is rushing bases and ignoring the enemy. I feel a little more strategy and tactics would come from something like this.

At least on conquest and incursion, light mechs that are doing a good job keeping to the objectives get very little to show for it.

Some of my least paid wins came from base rushing in Assault missions. Conquest on the other hand pays handsomely for objective completion.

[touchpad dog]

This makes sense . . .

[gooddragon2]

I can deal with every mode except escort. There is not nearly enough of a reward in cbills to justify the amount of hassle involved. At least with Conquest you get a conquest bonus at the end to make up for how long it takes. Just give me an Escort bonus in the same way and I'll be happy.

What I'd also like is not so much randomized quests, but progress bar quests that every so many kills, assists, damage, etc. you get a payout of Cbills. I'd auraxium my clan ppc sniper of course. Wait... wrong game.

Edited by gooddragon2, 18 January 2018 - 04:29 AM.

[SQW]

Spare Parts Bin, on 17 January 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

Xetelian, good post. Sometimes it seems what it takes to win a game and what pays is inversely proportional.

Incursion: I have never understood 2 opposing armed factions having established fixed bases of operation essentially on top of each other. Like the CW mission one side is the defender and the other is the attacker.

Because to make PvP truly balanced, EVERYTHING has to mirror the other side. Including the paint job.

touchpad dog, on 18 January 2018 - 04:22 AM, said:

This makes sense . . .

Which just means it wouldn't happen. Now an Atlas mobility nerf - that's practically a given.

[gooddragon2]

SQW, on 18 January 2018 - 04:30 AM, said:

Which just means it wouldn't happen. Now an Atlas mobility nerf - that's practically a given.

I think that the assassin and the atlas should have the same mobility... as the Kodiak!!! >:]

Edited by gooddragon2, 18 January 2018 - 04:36 AM.

[TheHurp]

For escort, i think it would be interesting if the defending team's slowest mech became the VIP, or a randomly selected player actually operated it instead of their own mech for the match (with some guns on it). i'm not sure how that might work out though or if it there would be more or less frustration with the game mode. it may be a mixed bag results-wise but at least you could communicate with the VIP.

edit: spelling

Edited by TheHurp, 18 January 2018 - 07:42 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

Very good points! I'm all for it!

Maybe I would add, that damage done to hardware in incursion, escort and siege count towards damage done in the end screen and are thus rewarded.

[sycocys]

2 of the 3 matches I potatoed through last night were conquest.

Would have been nice to get sort of return for keeping those matches close by constantly turning and ticking the capture points. Both ended within 30 point spreads and the first one I believe was a 5 point.

Actually was a nice break to see people playing the mode rather than just rushing to the center of the map and killing each other though.

[Khobai]

incursion has bigger problems than not awarding cbills to the entire team for destroying buildings

the fact players can destroy buildings in the first place is part of the problem since it encourages base rushing. and there is literally no way to stop assassin base rushes (or any all-in base rush tactic really) if the team doing it is even remotely competent.

only the dropship calldown should be able to attack HQ buildings (the ability towers should be indestructible). jamming should jam the enemy dropship from targeting your buildings. and radar should counter the enemy from jamming your own dropship. then theres actually a reason to get power cells. win condition would be first team to destroy all four enemy HQs with their dropship.

Edited by Khobai, 18 January 2018 - 07:59 AM.

[Xetelian]

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:

incursion has bigger problems than not awarding cbills to the entire team for destroying buildings

the fact players can destroy buildings in the first place is part of the problem since it encourages base rushing. and there is literally no way to stop assassin base rushes (or any all-in base rush tactic really) if the team doing it is even remotely competent.

only the dropship calldown should be able to attack HQ buildings (the ability towers should be indestructible). jamming should jam the enemy dropship from targeting your buildings. and radar should counter the enemy from jamming your own dropship. then theres actually a reason to get power cells. win condition would be first team to destroy all four enemy HQs with their dropship.

You're not entirely wrong but I think the fixing Incursion topic game play wise is another thread itself. I think drop-ships doing damage to the structures would be pretty good, give the battery carriers a strong motivation to battle over those batteries and give AC towers a reason to exist.

I think it is a shame that objectives pay barely anything while damage is the main goal. For something like assault you could make the time to capture a base a bit faster, so that a few light mechs capping the base would be a real threat and people would need to assign defenders to stop light mechs from winning matches quickly. Either way I'd love to test these changes before they go live and see how it turns out.


Conquest in faction play feels right, you MUST get some capping done, with anything faster than an Innersphere heavy running to points because before the game times out that counter will fill before 48 mechs are destroyed.




I think having 6 different flavors of TDM that all play out similarly is a major flaw with our game modes and I think it is seriously bad that base capping and base destruction pay out very little to the winning team.

Edited by Xetelian, 18 January 2018 - 08:31 AM.

[Khobai]

the payouts are bad because pgi doesnt want teams ignoring eachother to base rush

like how assault used to work, both teams would walk past eachother on opposite sides of the map and it was a rush to base cap

you cannot increase the rewards without changing the gamemodes for the worst.

thats why the actual gamemodes need to be improved first. only then can you increase rewards.

Edited by Khobai, 18 January 2018 - 08:32 AM.

[Xetelian]

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 08:30 AM, said:

the payouts are bad because pgi doesnt want teams ignoring eachother to base rush

like how assault used to work, both teams would walk past eachother on opposite sides of the map and it was a rush to base cap

you cannot increase the rewards without changing the gamemodes for the worst.

thats why the actual gamemodes need to be improved first. only then can you increase rewards.

Put turrets back in? Not those wimpy 10 damage turrets but some LL turrets? Have a dropship or two hovering over the base on a rotation or something?

Playing to the objective should be a legitimate thing to do. The fact that every match is TDM no matter what mode you choose is seriously pathetic and while that needs its own fixes, paying rewards out for capping isn't going to change up the dynamic so drastically that people are rotating around the map for 12 person base caps.

[Khobai]

it would be better just to remove assault from the game entirely

the gamemode offers nothing worthwhile

[TKSax]

Xetelian, on 18 January 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:

Playing to the objective should be a legitimate thing to do.

This is a PVP Game based on mech combat, not a PvE game about completing objectives. Having said that more game modes should be like conquest and domination (To a lesser extent assault) where the objectives can be and are used to force movement and response to that movement and or point captures.

[ANOM O MECH]

Xetelian, on 17 January 2018 - 08:37 PM, said:

Incursion:
Instead of whoever gets the last hit on a mobile base gets all the money, how about we give everyone on the team a bit. At the very least everyone who damages it should get something.

Nothing says great team play as much as watching someone whittle down the HP to 2% and then have the guy standing next to him waiting to alpha the last of it.

More rewards for batteries, absolutely.

Escort:
Protect rewards given out for fighting near the VIP like they are for fighting near each other. Decent ones too. This mode has a lot of problems but there is no incentive to actually defend the VIP instead of running off and skirmishing.



Conquest:
More rewards for capping. Not just on capture but the ticking that happens as you stand on it. Fighting around a point should give everyone doing it a bonus.



Assault:

Waaaaay more reward per tick of capturing, as it stands now if you're a light mech and you cap to win you're getting next to nothing compared to if you had just ignored the point and fought. Fighting over a point should give both sides a reward as they're fighting.


Invasion:
Gun gens and door gens should give rewards to the whole team, not just the last guy who hit them. (El Bandito suggestion)





Make all damage to structures and turrets count towards the total damage of the match. (Phoolan Devi)



I think this would help incentivise the objectives enough to make it more valuable for everyone, especially light mechs.

I like most of what you say here. I also like lights so maybe that's part of it.

Escort however I disagree. Best practice seems to be to rush out and start engaging the enemy before the moron VIP mech stumbles out into the open. Outside of Grim, I don't see games going very well when teams stick with the VIP. Honestly though I hate the mode so much and I don't seem to be alone, that nothing is really going to get people to engage in the mode.

[ANOM O MECH]

TKSax, on 18 January 2018 - 09:20 AM, said:

This is a PVP Game based on mech combat, not a PvE game about completing objectives. Having said that more game modes should be like conquest and domination (To a lesser extent assault) where the objectives can be and are used to force movement and response to that movement and or point captures.

I agree with the spirit of what you say.

Objectives should however be there so every match isn't skirmish and some strategy is added to the game.

The focus should and always be combat.

Conquest is my favourite mode though because it forces teams to react and move around the map.

I would only like objectives to be viable and rewarding to promote different forms of combat, not eliminate it.