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Atm/mrms Proper Usage?


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#1 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 09:01 PM

Hey I am working on both IS and Clan new tech weapons. On first blush it appears that MRMs are more like longer range MRMs with less damage. Point blank range adding MRMs to MPLs or MLs,LMGs,LPLs,etc., to pad damage seems to a good usage.

ATMs from what I hear are most damaging at 120-270 meters(3 points of damage per missle) as range extends damage drops to 1 at LRM ranges.

Is what I have said is right? Do y'all have additional insight or suggested tactics?


#2 Roughneck45

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 09:18 PM

MRMs are best with medium mechs that have a giant missile cooldown quirk and preferably jump jets. MRMs don't pair that great with any weapon system, nothing else has a similar firing pattern. Pulse lasers could work but I'd argue you are better off with more MRMs/speed/jj's.

ATMs can be swapped into any LRM build you like, just remember the differences in missile mechanics and that you are most deadly up close.

#3 Tesunie

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 09:28 PM

As a note on ATMs, keep in mind they have a hard minimum range of 120m. Inside that range they do zero (0) damage. So keep people close, but not TOO close...

#4 Audacious Aubergine

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 09:45 PM

I've had decent results (well, mostly fun, not necessarily high damage) using MRMs at SRM ranges, nothing further than about 300m away because otherwise the spread means you're doing more to the landscape than your target. I like to pair them with standard medium lasers for the approximate range matching and duration - cooldowns are different, of course, but I don't usually mind.
As for ATMs, I find them best as longer ranged streaks rather than an LRM replacement. Because they fire straight rather than in an arc, you'll have best results when you have a decent line of fire to your target. You can shoot over walls occasionally but that's rare and a waste of your rather limited missiles. I've also found that they only work if you have quite a few of them - a single ATM 6 for example won't get you fantastic results, but a pair of them might. A pair of ATM 9 (Cougar prime and KDK-4) or a pair of ATM 12 (Mad Dog) seem to be my favourite mix at the moment.

#5 The Basilisk

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 12:39 AM

As Roughneck stated...MRMs are best used on medium Mechs with GOOD jumping capabilitys and decent speed to bombard and harrass the enemy. Use them as primary weapon and just slap on some secondarys of your liking.

ATMs are best used on fast mechs that are able to remain in the critical distance between 120 and 270m (note that the dmg between 270 and 360m does not drop abruptly but rather gradualy but the lower border of 120 is a deadline)
Howewer, never use them for indirect fire since their flight pattern is MUCH flatter than that of LRMs.
Use a Mech that can poke and or jump, use TAG and Beagle to penetrate ECM and remember that AMS can take down ATMs much easyer than LRMs.

#6 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 03:48 AM

Thanks loads folks. I will continue to refine my craft, your input is appreciated.

MRMs,ATMs,and RocketPods all seem to be hard to get a handle on but practice is perfect.

#7 The Basilisk

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 04:00 AM

View PostSpare Parts Bin, on 18 January 2018 - 03:48 AM, said:

Thanks loads folks. I will continue to refine my craft, your input is appreciated.

MRMs,ATMs,and RocketPods all seem to be hard to get a handle on but practice is perfect.


Rocket pods realy are a....trollweapon...or slapped on mechs that you desperately want to have their Rack port used.
f.e. only mech I use Rockets on is my loyality Zeuss with RAC5+2 in one arm, LLaser and med laser in adjanced torso and on the other arm 3x R15.
Otherwise...just keep your hands of rockets they are not worth the efford in most cases...in most...but sometimes they are hillarious.

#8 BTGbullseye

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:13 PM

Unless you're in a mech that can guarantee that your enemy stays in your 3 damage range, LRMs are superior in every way to ATMs ton-for-ton. Inside that narrow range, ATMs are slightly better than LRMs. Inside the minimum range, LRMs are actually able to do damage, making them superior to ATMs there as well.

#9 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:39 PM

View PostBTGbullseye, on 19 January 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

Unless you're in a mech that can guarantee that your enemy stays in your 3 damage range, LRMs are superior in every way to ATMs ton-for-ton. Inside that narrow range, ATMs are slightly better than LRMs. Inside the minimum range, LRMs are actually able to do damage, making them superior to ATMs there as well.


You speak much truth but I am not done with ATMs. LURMS on the other hand I take once in a blue moon.

#10 Koniving

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:58 PM

View PostSpare Parts Bin, on 17 January 2018 - 09:01 PM, said:

Hey I am working on both IS and Clan new tech weapons. On first blush it appears that MRMs are more like longer range SRMs with less damage. Point blank range adding MRMs to MPLs or MLs,LMGs,LPLs,etc., to pad damage seems to a good usage.

In MWO, yes.

While SRMs have always been depicted as pretty dumb in Mechwarrior titles, this trend started as a way to distinguish them from Streaks as opposed to fully implementing lore proper streaks or SRMs. In the source material, SRMs are guided -- easily fooled and somewhat unreliable, but guided. The Kintaro's NARC beacon makes a lot more sense when you consider the ammo the Kintaro carries for its SRMs are NARC-enabled, and its primary tactic is to lodge a NARC beacon onto the target and have all its SRMs go for the beacon to avoid the counter measures an enemy would use to fool normal SRM guidance. (Just a reminder, PGI did not include that feature. Don't get excited.)

PGI simply followed the trend of "dumb SRMs." Admittedly this wasn't always the case, PGI's original implementation of SRMs gave the illusion of guidance, as they would spread out and then converge onto a single point if the target remained at the range the SRMs were fired at, but if the target closed or increased the distance between you and it, the SRMs would spread as a consequence of either failing to converge at that point or impacting before they could. This was pretty wild to watch, too.

MRMs are missiles without guidance, effectively re-loadable rockets
And as such, SRMs and MRMs are at first blush, identical with the MRM trading damage for range and speed.

But there is a difference.
SRMs are fire and forget, click a spot and the missiles will go there, regardless of what you're doing in the mean time.
MRMs will follow the crosshair, and as such will adjust their flight path of sequential shots automatically. This, when coupled with fast movements, could allow you to fire a stream of missiles to 'minimally' hit up to 7 mechs at once. Not practical but possible.

I should note that MRMs have a range in which damage will usually not register. It doesn't say they have a minimum range on Smurfy, but I have noticed that under 100 meters, it's worse than 50-50 as to whether or not damage even occurs. It is not clear whether this is ping related or may have other factors at play. Whatever the case is this seems to be compounded when firing multiple MRM launchers at once, and any missiles firing after shutdown seem to automatically do zero damage, assuming the launchers don't strangely cut dead during shutdown.

Quote

ATMs from what I hear are most damaging at 120-270 meters(3 points of damage per missle) as range extends damage drops to 1 at LRM ranges.

Is what I have said is right? Do y'all have additional insight or suggested tactics?

Correct. In terms of the source material, ATM launchers could fire 3 different types of missiles. The short ranged heavy damagers, the medium range modest damagers, and the long range highly accurate but very weak damagers. PGI said "Screw it, that's too much work so lets do this instead."

Simplifies things.
Note ATMs do not like to go over obstacles. Or up hills.

Edited by Koniving, 19 January 2018 - 09:05 PM.


#11 Muriel Steiner

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 06:27 AM

I feel like I make pretty good use of atm's on my ebon jaguar with 4 atm 9's.. Ideally I get a target between 120 and 300 meters and hit them with a 108pt. alpha.. then I pop back behind cover and cooldown for a bit. With that said, the fact that I have the option to use them at longer ranges is a plus.

I stick with the group normally, so people that want to charge into my minimum range have to whether the hail of gunfire from my allies (and my admittedly meager back up weaponry).. and yet I've seen people do that just to avoid my atm's. More likely, the enemy will sit at range trading shots for a while at the start of a match. During this time I use my atm's sparingly.. but I DO use them.. Since of started using my ATM's in this manner, my match damage has basically doubled.

#12 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:47 AM

View PostMuriel Steiner, on 11 February 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

I feel like I make pretty good use of atm's on my ebon jaguar with 4 atm 9's.. Ideally I get a target between 120 and 300 meters and hit them with a 108pt. alpha.. then I pop back behind cover and cooldown for a bit. With that said, the fact that I have the option to use them at longer ranges is a plus.

I stick with the group normally, so people that want to charge into my minimum range have to whether the hail of gunfire from my allies (and my admittedly meager back up weaponry).. and yet I've seen people do that just to avoid my atm's. More likely, the enemy will sit at range trading shots for a while at the start of a match. During this time I use my atm's sparingly.. but I DO use them.. Since of started using my ATM's in this manner, my match damage has basically doubled.


Yet another reason for team work. Thank you for that strategy.

#13 Feezou

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:18 AM

Mad Dog with 30 ATM tubes. Keep em in 120-275 meters, and that's 1,432 damage by mostly indirect fire. It's about a 90 point volley.

#14 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:21 AM

View PostFeezou, on 12 February 2018 - 08:18 AM, said:

Mad Dog with 30 ATM tubes. Keep em in 120-275 meters, and that's 1,432 damage by mostly indirect fire. It's about a 90 point volley.


I need to buy the Mad Dog Hero.

#15 Feezou

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:39 AM

View PostSpare Parts Bin, on 12 February 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:


I need to buy the Mad Dog Hero.


ECM mechs are the worst, though.

#16 Water Bear

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:45 AM

View PostSpare Parts Bin, on 17 January 2018 - 09:01 PM, said:

Hey I am working on both IS and Clan new tech weapons. On first blush it appears that MRMs are more like longer range MRMs with less damage. Point blank range adding MRMs to MPLs or MLs,LMGs,LPLs,etc., to pad damage seems to a good usage.

ATMs from what I hear are most damaging at 120-270 meters(3 points of damage per missle) as range extends damage drops to 1 at LRM ranges.

Is what I have said is right? Do y'all have additional insight or suggested tactics?


About MRMs: If you pair them with something, use a ballistic. MRMs generate plenty of heat and you will melt with a laser combo. I know because I've tried a lot of MRM combos.

An example of a build that works ok is the Roughneck with LB-20x + MRM 40 (I think it was). You have high hardpoints, so you hill hump and dump a 60 point alpha into the enemy, then retreat (entirely standard play). The good news is you generate low heat, so your heat-adjusted DPS his quite high, and you crit seek extremely well.

As mentioned, XL medium mechs (preferably with jump jets) also do extremely well even with small batteries of MRMs (50-60). Having high hardpoints is key. The GRF chassis works extremely well this way.

MRM boating on assaults is...OK. You will generate a ton of damage, but generally speaking UAC spam is always a better way to generate massive DPS if you have already given up on being able to deal pinpoint damage.

The thing about MRMs is that they deal massive damage for their weight, so you want to play that factor to your advantage. Medium and Heavy MRM boats will return massive damage, which is OK in trade for accuracy (ie your ability to actually kill something as opposed to stripping its armor) given that mediums and some heavies can't kill much on their own anyway.

#17 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:41 PM

Thanks Water Bear for the tip. Heat management is critical.

#18 Zergling

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:37 PM

I highly recommend sticking to under 500 meters range with ATMs; while under 270 meters is even better, 500 meters is about the limit to avoid wasting ammo.
You can still take the occasional shot at longer ranges, but you won't be inflicting much damage.

Also, due to their relatively flat trajectory and slightly higher missile velocity than LRMs, ATMs can be dumbfired when you can't get a lock.

Edited by Zergling, 14 February 2018 - 09:37 PM.


#19 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:52 PM

View PostWater Bear, on 13 February 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:


About MRMs: If you pair them with something, use a ballistic. MRMs generate plenty of heat and you will melt with a laser combo. I know because I've tried a lot of MRM combos.

An example of a build that works ok is the Roughneck with LB-20x + MRM 40 (I think it was). You have high hardpoints, so you hill hump and dump a 60 point alpha into the enemy, then retreat (entirely standard play). The good news is you generate low heat, so your heat-adjusted DPS his quite high, and you crit seek extremely well.

As mentioned, XL medium mechs (preferably with jump jets) also do extremely well even with small batteries of MRMs (50-60). Having high hardpoints is key. The GRF chassis works extremely well this way.

MRM boating on assaults is...OK. You will generate a ton of damage, but generally speaking UAC spam is always a better way to generate massive DPS if you have already given up on being able to deal pinpoint damage.

The thing about MRMs is that they deal massive damage for their weight, so you want to play that factor to your advantage. Medium and Heavy MRM boats will return massive damage, which is OK in trade for accuracy (ie your ability to actually kill something as opposed to stripping its armor) given that mediums and some heavies can't kill much on their own anyway.

View PostZergling, on 14 February 2018 - 09:37 PM, said:

I highly recommend sticking to under 500 meters range with ATMs; while under 270 meters is even better, 500 meters is about the limit to avoid wasting ammo.
You can still take the occasional shot at longer ranges, but you won't be inflicting much damage.

Also, due to their relatively flat trajectory and slightly higher missile velocity than LRMs, ATMs can be dumbfired when you can't get a lock.


Thanks folks. MRMs and Rocket Pods seem to work well on mixed builds( ballistic,energy,missle).

#20 EvangelX

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 06:29 PM

MRMs do indeed seem to 'disappear' midflight upon death. I just saw this with my own two eyes, needs a fix o7





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