119 replies to this topic

[Direwoof]

Does anybody at this point still believe that clan mechs are OP compared to IS? Or do they just keep saying it to keep the nerf train coming from PGI?

[Trenchbird]

Oh, man. I thought this was going to be another person complaining about OP Clan Mechs, and I was all sorts of ready to piss on that parade.

[Direwoof]

Catten Hart, on 16 January 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

Oh, man. I thought this was going to be another person complaining about OP Clan Mechs, and I was all sorts of ready to piss on that parade.

Personally I think they know that clan mechs aren't OP at all but still keep saying it to get what they want.

[FupDup]

The Clam tech base (the equipment and stuff) is for the most part better than the IS tech base, the reason it's not always that clear-cut in-game is because many Clam mechs have innate design flaws that prevent them from fully leveraging that power (being either roughly equal to an average IS mech or sometimes worse). However, it's important to remember that such cases are a chassis weakness, not a tech weakness.

Clam gundams without such flaws tend to rise to the top of the meta mountain pretty quickly.

Edited by FupDup, 16 January 2018 - 02:51 PM.

[Tarogato]

Here we go again.


We really should have a thread stickied at the top of this forum dedicated to Clan vs IS salt. Keep it all in one place.

[Liveish]

PGI need to Buff bad players

[Sjorpha]

Depends on what you mean by "OP", clan mechs are better ton for ton in most cases. Most competitive mechs and builds are clan.

In FP it's more balanced since the IS tonnage advantage makes up for some of that, but between two equally skilled teams the slight edge is still going to be on the clan side in most cases.

[Andi Nagasia]

Direwoof, on 16 January 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

Does anybody at this point still believe that clan mechs are OP compared to IS? Or do they just keep saying it to keep the nerf train coming from PGI?

Clan mechs are better than IS mechs, this is a fact, all Bias aside this wont change,
what we have to look at is how much better are Clan Mechs, 1% better wont matter, but 10% will,

personally i feel the 2 biggest problems tech wise are,
1) Clan XL Engines(or more so, IS-XL Engines needing to survive ST loss)
2) Clan Upgrades(or more so, IS-Upgraded needing some love)

their are ways to handle both,
you could make IS-XLs like Clan XLs, and just give Bonuses to LFEs and STD Engines(both techs)
in this case bonuses to LFEs and STD Engines can be a +8CTStructure(LFE) or +16(STD)

for C-Endo you could release Composite Internal Structure, which works just like C-Endo,
the catch is Composite Internal Structure takes x2 damage to internals, so solution?
-
double the Internal Structure of all mechs,
make C-Endo/Composite Internal Structure identical(both Half your Internal Structure hp(same as now)
and make it so STD Structure & normal IS Endo dont decrease your Internal Structure hp,
=example=
a mech with 40CTStructure would have it reduced to 20 with C-Endo or Composite,
a mech with 40CTStructure would not change with IS-Endo or STD Structure Equipped,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 16 January 2018 - 03:19 PM.

[MechaBattler]

All I know is that when the tournament rolls round. Most of the Comp teams consist mostly of Clan mechs. With a few notable exceptions. And from the sounds of it the Assassin will be nerfed. So cheers.

[K O Z A K]

and here I thought we were going to make it through 1 day without an OP thread

[Luminis]

Clan tech is inherently superior. Simple fact. Yes, the ballistics spread, weapons generate more heat, longer burn duration on lasers, I know, I know. The advantages in weight, slots, damage and XL survivability still outweigh these advantages.

However: Armour quirks (Annihilator), weapon quirks (Battlemaster) and specific hardpoint layouts (Warhammer 6R) can compensate for the tech difference. As a result, some IS 'Mechs are actually damn good. Quite a considerable number of variants, however, is terrible and the good 'Mechs are usually quirked into being good, which might change at a moment's notice.

I mean, not like Clans don't have their fair share of crap 'Mechs (thanks to locked equipment or terrible geometry), but they at least have a far larger number of top tier stuff. If we were counting down the top five of 'Mechs per weight class, I doubt we'd be seeing a lot of IS in there.

/edit:
So, straight answer: Wouldn't call Clan 'Mechs OP in general but balance wise, the advantage sure as hell still lies with the Clans.

Edited by Luminis, 16 January 2018 - 03:23 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

MechaBattler, on 16 January 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

All I know is that when the tournament rolls round. Most of the Comp teams consist mostly of Clan mechs. With a few notable exceptions. And from the sounds of it the Assassin will be nerfed. So cheers.

well tournament arnt a great indicator of balance because of the Min Maxing,
in Comp if you have 2 mechs and one is 5% better you take the better one because you want to win,
so even if balance was close with most Clan Mechs being Slightly better you would still see mostly clan,
(Not saying that Clan Mechs arnt Strong, just that Balance isnt Prefect, yet )

[Dubious Squirrel]

This assertion that all clan mechs are better than all IS mechs is rubbish. There are mechs / builds on both sides that are scary, regardless of what you are in. Whenever I decide to play one of those on the IS side I have no difficulty picking up regular kills. So IMO pick a good mech, build it well and you should be just fine.

[MechaBattler]

And the most represented IS mech gets nerfed. Because if it's good enough to make that cut. It's too good in general play. Yet the others are fine.

Edited by MechaBattler, 16 January 2018 - 03:30 PM.

[Mcgral18]

live1991, on 16 January 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

PGI need to Buff bad players

They certainly do

Too many Clam Apologists can't use the superior robots


How many Spheroid robots are used at the top level?
How many of them without quirks? None, actually

Not to say Clam mechs don't have quirks, see the Summoner. More quirks than some Spheroid robots...which raises other questions.
It's more agile than the H2C, with better cooling.
I guess it's only a matter of time before they gimp it, as we've seen with the H2C, KDK3, Gyr, Timber
But, that time hasn't come, yet.


The sub 15% Spheroid pick rate in the MWOWC SF kinda speaks for itself
They're, both as a whole and at the upper end, usually inferior to Clam mechs


It just so happens that Clam Apologists are usually Terribads, so they can't use the robots to their potential.
That, or they're Trolls. Quite a few of those too.

[Direwoof]

Luminis, on 16 January 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

Clan tech is inherently superior. Simple fact. Yes, the ballistics spread, weapons generate more heat, longer burn duration on lasers, I know, I know. The advantages in weight, slots, damage and XL survivability still outweigh these advantages.

However: Armour quirks (Annihilator), weapon quirks (Battlemaster) and specific hardpoint layouts (Warhammer 6R) can compensate for the tech difference. As a result, some IS 'Mechs are actually damn good. Quite a considerable number of variants, however, is terrible and the good 'Mechs are usually quirked into being good, which might change at a moment's notice.

I mean, not like Clans don't have their fair share of crap 'Mechs (thanks to locked equipment or terrible geometry), but they at least have a far larger number of top tier stuff. If we were counting down the top five of 'Mechs per weight class, I doubt we'd be seeing a lot of IS in there.

/edit:
So, straight answer: Wouldn't call Clan 'Mechs OP in general but balance wise, the advantage sure as hell still lies with the Clans.

I wouldn't say that clan or IS are better mechs at this point but the 265 tons is a big deal. Clans get hardly any room to play around with, my fav clan mechs are both 100 tons so I can never play both of them and if I play one of them I get gimped for it.

[Mcgral18]

[MechaBattler]

Summoner is doing pretty good. I remember when they were considered weak. But then that was back when the Timberwolf was top tier and the Summoner had no quirks.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Direwoof, on 16 January 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

Does anybody at this point still believe that clan mechs are OP compared to IS? Or do they just keep saying it to keep the nerf train coming from PGI?

Anybody who can aim, yes.

*shots fired*

Joking aside, Clan tech is overall better performing, which then leaves the chassis itself. There are excellent Clan & IS 'mechs, but given choice (like MixTech), most people would use mostly Clan tech on their 'mechs.

So no, Clan 'mechs are not OP compared to IS 'mechs. Clan tech compared to IS tech? More often than not, it's better. In many cases it's just flat-out better with no drawbacks.

[K O Z A K]

people really need to understand that balance in QP solo, QP group, MRBC, other comp tournies, FP on QP maps, FP on FP maps and FP scouting are all quite different

and basically every time they try to change the balance in one of those it screws it up for everything else