21 replies to this topic

[Snowbluff]

Which is better now? :0

[process]

It's not that straightforward. Cool run is currently very, very slightly better in isolation, especially since it benefits more than just weapons, but you have to consider the skill node investment to max each and the other nodes you pick up along the way.

If you prefer a more weapons-based skill tree loadout, you'll probably still get more value out of heat gen.

[Humpday]

Just a warning, you're not going to get anything out of this thread as there are those will say the above...and those that will say Heatgen.

For me its usually subjective to the mech/build. I typically don't take coolrun anymore since I prefer firing me weapons more times in succession, and riding the heat scale, rather than I do waiting for the mech to dissipate heat.

Honestly though, when it doubt, take all of one or the other, or both, fully.

Edited by Humpday, 24 January 2018 - 07:45 AM.

[Asym]

I'm not sure if there is an "prefered method" either? It's whatever works after trials and errors.... I've done that on a HBR laser vomit mech and still haven't found a perfect solution..... There are far too many viariables that depend on the player's play style....

[El Bandito]

Dunno if Coolrun can be affected by ambient temperature, but heat reduction is not.

[JediPanther]

If i'm planing on using a clan mech with a lot of energy I go full out for cool run then as much heat gen in fire power. I find a lot of clan mechs simply too hot with the way I play so most of the time i'm in an IS mech.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 24 January 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

Dunno if Coolrun can be affected by ambient temperature, but heat reduction is not.

As a flat percentage applied to your dissipation rate, I would imagine that on a hotter map it's less effective since the stock dissipation is lower, and vice versa.

[panzer1b]

Cool run and heatgen are both musts if you are running clam lazor puke builds (or anything that tends to cook itself after more then 1 alfa strike. For other mechs, it depends on what you want out of it. Cool run requires a hefty investment in the OPS tree, and while its a huge deal (in my opinion 5 coolrun nodes with the bare minimum heat cont you get along the way are way more noticeable then all heatgen nodes), its not really a must get on mechs that run ballistics or some other lowish heat weapon setup. Heat gen on the other hand tends to be a much lower point investment since 90% of mech builds run at least part of the weapons tree anyways like the super popular ammo capacity or even basic range boost, but seems to be less obvious compared to cool run (both of them upgrade your DPS).

Also, heat gen was nerfed recently for clam, and thus if you only want one or the other, get cool run. If you cant afford both but have anything in weapons tree, get heat gen as its less cost. If you can though, id say your best bet is to get both (or at least some of each).

[justcallme A S H]

I have some graphs on it all however it took a lot of testing to get the numbers... So people are unwilling to share that (I was asked not to). So I have not, and fair enough when people spend hours/days working stuff out.

Suffice to say THIS EXAMPLE is the most efficient use of Skill Maze to get the most "bang" for your node spending for cooling. OFC you can get the extra heat-gen on the right and the Heat Containment if you wish, but it depends what else you are kitting on the mech. Heat containment IMO is not worthwhile unless you are cDHS boating with big alpha's (So, Clan Energy user).

If not energy (SRMs etc) then you can be MORE CONSERVATIVE on the Ops side

So it isn't a question of "what is better now" as the heat change really, was not impactful in the grand scheme (I didn't notice it last night at all really). More a question of what is most efficient use of the tree. Again depends what you want to achieve but I see very little variation across the top end of the player base when it comes to Skilling a mech out. Minor tweaks here/there but it's very similar for the most part.

Humpday, on 24 January 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

Just a warning, you're not going to get anything out of this thread as there are those will say the above...and those that will say Heatgen.

All depends if you have or have not done the science/math. If you do, you know

Asym, on 24 January 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

I'm not sure if there is an "prefered method" either? It's whatever works after trials and errors.... I've done that on a HBR laser vomit mech and still haven't found a perfect solution..... There are far too many viariables that depend on the player's play style....

Absolutely there is a preferred/best way to do it. That is what understanding the game means.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 January 2018 - 06:12 PM.

[FupDup]

It's still mandatory to take both simultaneously unless you're boating Gauss or MGs.

[Chris Lowrey]

El Bandito, on 24 January 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

Dunno if Coolrun can be affected by ambient temperature, but heat reduction is not.

Ambient temperature does not affect Cool-run. Ambient temperature is simply native heat that is constantly applied to the 'Mech in the same way that walking and running heat is applied. The net effect of this results in it impacting heat dissipation, but it in itself is a static modifier that is applied in the same way against all 'Mechs.

I can't get into the specifics for how this works, but for simplicity sake, lf one 'Mech comes into a match with a 2.0 heat per second dissipation rate while another comes in with at 3.0 hps dissipation rate, and the native temp of the map cuts into this by -0.5, It applies this ambient heat to each of the 'Mechs equally. Resulting in an effective dissipation rate of 1.5 hps for one mech, while the other would have a 2.5 effective rate. So coolrun would not see any reduction in effectiveness on hot maps, nor any boost to performance on cold maps.

What does get affected by this though is your Heat Threshold value. Because Ambient heat is constantly applying an outside heat modifier to your 'Mech, how much of your overall Heat meter this eats into is entirely dependent on your total heat threshold reserve. Which is why one 'Mech may drop into a hot map and see a constant 8% on their meter, while another might see 12% of their meter taken up.

[Emeraudes]

El Bandito, on 24 January 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

Dunno if Coolrun can be affected by ambient temperature, but heat reduction is not.

No it's not. I won't go into specifics cause I can't be bothered. There are at least 2 threads dealing with exactly how each map affects heat and they all impact you as a fixed value(some dependant on your location in the map)

[process]

justcallme A S H, on 24 January 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

I have some graphs on it all however it took a lot of testing to get the numbers... So people are unwilling to share that (I was asked not to). So I have not, and fair enough when people spend hours/days working stuff out.

Suffice to say THIS EXAMPLE is the most efficient use of Skill Maze to get the most "bang" for your node spending for cooling. OFC you can get the extra heat-gen on the right and the Heat Containment if you wish, but it depends what else you are kitting on the mech. Heat containment IMO is not worthwhile unless you are cDHS boating with big alpha's (So, Clan Energy user).

If you don't mind taking non-functional nodes, you can save 4 nodes by shortcutting through High Explosive and Missile spread on the left, and Gauss Charge and LBX Spread on the right. This brings the cost of full heat gen/cool run down to 45 nodes total.

[justcallme A S H]

Range is of critical importance to ensure you are always doing the most dmg @ the most range to maximise trades. Losing 4% range is not acceptable. Nor is cooldown, especially in a DAKKA boat.

Again this comes from the top end mentality. Not the mentality of "it doesn't matter" or selecting nodes that don't help.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 January 2018 - 06:58 PM.

[Xetelian]

I read in a previous thread, I don't know how accurate it is, but someone said that the more DHS you have the better cool run works?


I still take both on my laser mechs even the ones with just 10 DHS.

[Asym]

justcallme A S H, on 24 January 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

Absolutely there is a preferred/best way to do it. That is what understanding the game means.

OK, I'm just an illerate retired old horse soldiier with no less than 5 college degrees and working on another graduate degree..... So, for the Hellbringer running 2 HLL and 4 ERML, what is the preferred skill tree layout that can sponsor an aggressive play style. And, don't use the B33f's video cause I tried his layout and his playstyle and mine aren't anywhere near the same....

Would greatly appreciate a genius solution.....after all, I'm just a potato who is barely playing anymore.....

Edited by Asym, 24 January 2018 - 07:43 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

The sooner you realize that playstyle depends on the 'Mech and not the other way around, the better off you'll be.

[process]

Xetelian, on 24 January 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

I read in a previous thread, I don't know how accurate it is, but someone said that the more DHS you have the better cool run works?

This is false. The amount of heatsinks benefits heat gen and cool run equally. The major difference is that heat gen only affects weapons, while cool run affects other factors that generate heat like jumpjets.

[Humpday]

Chris Lowrey, on 24 January 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

Ambient temperature does not affect Cool-run. Ambient temperature is simply native heat that is constantly applied to the 'Mech in the same way that walking and running heat is applied. The net effect of this results in it impacting heat dissipation, but it in itself is a static modifier that is applied in the same way against all 'Mechs.

I can't get into the specifics for how this works, but for simplicity sake, lf one 'Mech comes into a match with a 2.0 heat per second dissipation rate while another comes in with at 3.0 hps dissipation rate, and the native temp of the map cuts into this by -0.5, It applies this ambient heat to each of the 'Mechs equally. Resulting in an effective dissipation rate of 1.5 hps for one mech, while the other would have a 2.5 effective rate. So coolrun would not see any reduction in effectiveness on hot maps, nor any boost to performance on cold maps.

What does get affected by this though is your Heat Threshold value. Because Ambient heat is constantly applying an outside heat modifier to your 'Mech, how much of your overall Heat meter this eats into is entirely dependent on your total heat threshold reserve. Which is why one 'Mech may drop into a hot map and see a constant 8% on their meter, while another might see 12% of their meter taken up.

Ok see, this is freaking cool. We need more of this.
Thats twice in 2 weeks a developer has interjected in threads.

Very nice.

[justcallme A S H]

Asym, on 24 January 2018 - 07:38 PM, said:

OK, I'm just an illerate retired old horse soldiier with no less than 5 college degrees and working on another graduate degree..... So, for the Hellbringer running 2 HLL and 4 ERML, what is the preferred skill tree layout that can sponsor an aggressive play style. And, don't use the B33f's video cause I tried his layout and his playstyle and mine aren't anywhere near the same....

Would greatly appreciate a genius solution.....after all, I'm just a potato who is barely playing anymore.....

Lol 5 degrees and you still can't workout META in video game. Seems basic common sense isn't taught anymore?

Given I already posted up the best budget way for heat etc. What more do you want?

Spend the other still maze points however you want. Survival, laser duration (6-7 more firepower), ECM if you carry it, dual strike/coolshot or more I to Ops. Work out whatever you want.

I've never seen you play aggressive in game. Just dying alone from your team, so not sure what style you are after exactly... A hot laser boat isn't being aggressive. It's about making effective trades. Dealing more damage than you take - always.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 January 2018 - 10:14 PM.