165 replies to this topic

[Dago Red]

Lordhammer, on 21 January 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

well, my opponents most of the time dont just stare at me with blank eyes to allow me to get full burns at one component. Flanks are only way to reliably do that (which means you already are beating the other guy). If you are saying that you can hit at one component at 500m for 1.5 seconds long every time then either he's example 1 or you are bullshitting. Thats why i like ISmeds or cMPLs duration is perfect, by the time enemy does torsotwist you've dealt most of your damage, and it is short enough to be used with jumpjets. You hit where you want to hit, no damage/heat wasted. And uac thing(like the gauss charge) is just a mechanic i hate never said i couldnt do it. Game is full of bad mechanics, pgi is adding more and more to "balance" instead of actual hardcap that would end all discussion forever. Energy Draw needs to come back, but instead of heat as a penalty just shutdown the mech before firing(since you tried to spend more energy than you have it is also logical to shutdown/not firing). That would literally end the arms race after a week of confusion and chaos. Noone here could argue ERMeds or HvLs or any other energy weapon system would be OP if you could not stack them with each other. But when you can stack them builds go nuts, technically we could have a mech that can do 108 damage alpha without triggering ghost heat.

Ok first of all paragraphs are a skill you should work on developing even more than your laser aim.

Secondly if I my slightly spicy tubery self (I self identify as a radish) can pull off getting 80% of my laser burns on single components while doing spastic maneuvers that make me look like I'm attempting a one man 3 Stooges routine and using sensitivity settings that have outright gotten me called a liar about being able to shoot straight with them before then anyone should be able to do it enacting normal tactics.

And there are people who play this game who are a hell of a lot better than me.

[Baba Yogi]

Dago Red, on 21 January 2018 - 07:02 AM, said:

Ok first of all paragraphs are a skill you should work on developing even more than your laser aim.

Secondly if I my slightly spicy tubery self (I self identify as a radish) can pull off getting 80% of my laser burns on single components while doing spastic maneuvers that make me look like I'm attempting a one man 3 Stooges routine and using sensitivity settings that have outright gotten me called a liar about being able to shoot straight with them before then anyone should be able to do it enacting normal tactics.

And there are people who play this game who are a hell of a lot better than me.

Everyone thinks they are Kai Allard-Liao himself. One would think i'd fight against one of you in quickplay. Alas, i die with my mech trashed all over all the time, despite the laser meta. Maybe the reason of this disparity in perspective is that some of us are more objective about personal skill than the others. Sounds like the more logical explanation.

[Appogee]

I for one think it's great that the Comp Players' recommendation to buff Heavy Gauss just happened to coincide with the pre-sale of the Fafnir.

I mean, how lucky for PGI!

I'll bet the Comp Players are also really chuffed that their #12,956th recommendation to PGI was the one that finally got adopted

Edited by Appogee, 21 January 2018 - 08:15 AM.

[Dago Red]

Lordhammer, on 21 January 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

Everyone thinks they are Kai Allard-Liao himself. One would think i'd fight against one of you in quickplay. Alas, i die with my mech trashed all over all the time, despite the laser meta. Maybe the reason of this disparity in perspective is that some of us are more objective about personal skill than the others. Sounds like the more logical explanation.

If what you got from that was me talking about being totally awesome then add reading comprehension to the list of skills to work on.

Usually more than one person will have shot you over the course of a match. Also usually a pretty good chunk of them will be wielding non precision weapons and taking what angles they can get even if it's gonna lead to more damage splashing around.

That's a chaotic battlefield 12v12 thing not a laser are hard to hold on target thing. If you want to complain that lasers force more exposure time to get their damage in and therefore leave you more vulnerable you'd likely get more sympathy working that angle.

If you've ever fought the REALLY good teams then you know how you can show your mech for a second and be red internal in one shoulder and pretty clean everywhere else instantly.

Edited by Dago Red, 21 January 2018 - 08:18 AM.

[Deathlike]

Appogee, on 21 January 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

I for one think it's great that the Comp Players' recommendation to buff Heavy Gauss just happened to coincide with the pre-sale of the Fafnir.

I mean, how lucky for PGI!

I'll bet the Comp Players are also really chuffed that their #12,956th recommendation to PGI was the one that finally got adopted

Well, every so often, PGI trips over the correct answer.

Then again, it results in a concussion via explanation.

[Mystere]

justcallme A S H, on 21 January 2018 - 02:50 AM, said:

The nerf was absolutely called for.

I am still waiting for a solid reason for the CERPPC nerf.

justcallme A S H, on 21 January 2018 - 02:50 AM, said:

Clan Laser Vom will still be the premier choice. That is a indisputable fact - you have all the numbers nicely laid out for you. So lets hope they sink in.

And the point some people have been trying to make is that lasers should not be the only premier choice. Hopefully, that sinks in with you as well.

[Mystere]

Doctor Dinosaur, on 21 January 2018 - 04:16 AM, said:

Using a simulator is such a PGI thing to do...

What simulator? It seems I missed something. (Just had too many mimosas to concentrate at the moment )

sycocys, on 21 January 2018 - 06:54 AM, said:

All I know is that it would be terrible for the game if the comp players used more than a dozen different mechs and 2 different loadouts.

Was this a heavy dose of sarcasm? I can't tell -- see above.

Edited by Mystere, 21 January 2018 - 10:34 AM.

[Luminis]

Mystere, on 21 January 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

What simulator? It seems I missed something. (Just had too many mimosas to concentrate at the moment )

The loadout simulator I mentioned in my post earlier.

[TLBFestus]

Really enjoying reading all the ePeening going on here and the "I'm tier 1 and anyone who isn't should shut up and acknowledge the fact that we're better and smarter than you" going on here!

[justcallme A S H]

Lordhammer, on 21 January 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

well, my opponents most of the time dont just stare at me with blank eyes to allow me to get full burns at one component. Flanks are only way to reliably do that (which means you already are beating the other guy). If you are saying that you can hit at one component at 500m for 1.5 seconds long every time then either he's example 1 or you are bullshitting.

Why would I be lying? Look me up on Jarls list and compare to yourself. You'll see the difference pretty fast I'm sure.

If you can't hold a burn properly then you shouldn't be above T3, but then the PSR bar is just an experience bar. Hence we have all manner of players in T1 to thinking that means they are good... Problem is that couldn't be further from.the truth.

I can hold a burn to a CT with ERL at 1000m+. Doing less than 250 overall dmg to kill an Assault. Meaning over 70% is landing on the CT. If that isn't accurate firing I dunno what is.

If you are having trouble you need to go into some private lobbies. Do some practice, adjust mouse settings etc. Because it should easily be possible

[ANOM O MECH]

Jingseng, on 20 January 2018 - 08:41 PM, said:

Hmm.

And if you applied MLB to little league (such as regulation distances, field dimensions) no kids are ever going to play little league ever.

Which means no one to join the mlb.

Dig?

Translating back, applying comp play to everyone else drives everyone else away.

That's why you keep little league and mlb separate. As you do mutatis mutandis in all other sports.

Speaking of which, why wouldn't you let the best player in a sport set the rules for that sport?

Maybe because their perspective isn't shared by the overwhelming majority of the players? Maybe because it doesn't necessarily make for an interesting game to watch or play? Maybe because the result is rules heavily skewed for the top skilled players?

You don't see what you did there huh?

Yes you change the dimensions for little league.... you however don't change them at the MLB based on those tykes experience or needs.

You also have softball.

Either way, and even with children getting different rules and such, the changes filter down not up.

When I was a kid, they decided we couldn't use aluminum bats any more because at no level of competitive play were they allowed to be used. So minor league officials decided it was best for kids who are 12 or older should use wood in order to be accustomed to what higher levels of play are doing.

Either way, what potato's are doing and what they find interesting will never be good for the game overall. This is evident by how many times some empty lunchbox comes on here to campaign for everyone to be restricted to lore builds....

Also you don't speak for the overwhelming majority of players...none of us do.

That however you think that we shouldn't pay attention to those who are most skilled and are often (not always granted) much more knowledgeable about the game as a whole because of what you might find interesting is silly.

Oh and as far as the best players being involved in rules, I am going to put it out there that you do not know any professional athletes. I have a cousin who played in the NHL and my cousin is Doug Gilmore's best friend.

Doug is involved with the NHLPA and has been on the board of many committees involving rule changes and game play. Even now years after his retirement, he is consulted on changes to the game.

I doubt that the NHL is the only professional sports association to do this. In fact I bet if you googled around a bit you'd find all the major's do it.

Also you are sorely mistaken if you think that comp players being consulted on balance issues is forcing you into their playstyle. What it is doing is making something you probably don't understand or are aware of is not overpowered. In fact you benefit from when they said the Night Gyr and PPC/Gauss meta was too strong (although I personally think PGI went too far but I am a potato like you!) So their advice toned down what so many comp players were great at.... making it easier for you to do your thing without being dominated by people emulating the comp players.

[justcallme A S H]

Mystere, on 21 January 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

I am still waiting for a solid reason for the CERPPC nerf.

And the point some people have been trying to make is that lasers should not be the only premier choice. Hopefully, that sinks in with you as well.

It's a token nerf just like this whole heat-node change. There is maybe a difference is some spreadsheet calculation but in the real world translation, ain't gonna make a difference really.

I am totally behind not having Clan Energy as the only premier choice. I have never said it should be the only one - Just that nothing will change, with this "nerf". However this is how PGIs has begun to balance in the last 6-12 months.

The whack-a-mole theorem. Although this energy one is more akin to going up-to the mole, rubbing your hammer on its head in a gentle, semi-loving way & asking it nicely to put it's head back in the hole before you "boop" it softly.

PGI need to stop balancing by nerfs, this latest trend isn't a good one and is making the game stale & boring.

TLBFestus, on 21 January 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

Really enjoying reading all the ePeening going on here and the "I'm tier 1 and anyone who isn't should shut up and acknowledge the fact that we're better and smarter than you" going on here!

That isn't what is going on here at all. It's educated players presenting a bunch of actual evidence in the face of illogical and unfounded statements/arguments... And yet the illogical statements keep coming.

It's any wonder balance and gameplay is so stale in MWO right now when these illogical individuals are the ones crying the loudest and they are continually pandered to.

[ANOM O MECH]

riverslq, on 20 January 2018 - 10:38 PM, said:

Your comparison doesn't really hold up.
Competitive players alone will not pay for this game.

Sure it does as potato's doing potato things are not getting twitch followers or making out well on the youtubes... seems like the MWOWC vids however are showcasing the game and getting some views.

So while they may not pay for it, they will drive excitement and views which generate income at a much greater volume.

They will help sell mechs when good or noteworthy ones are introduced. Just watched a charity one v one event where EMP guys were running Nightstar's. Boy was there ever an uptick in Nightstar usage last night. It was palpable.

[Y E O N N E]

I was playing Nightstars before they were cool!

[justcallme A S H]

haha yep. Bows3r did a pretty special job. Same as seeing Dragon-5Ns running around after worlds and EmP keeping it a secret beforehand.

I mean the players running around in these mechs/builds from the upper echelon are not good at the game and can't really run the builds the way they should be - But none the less - the top tier does truly have a very good influence on the game and players respond to it. The respond far better to that than some LRMageddon user sitting 800m back in YoloQ yelling at people to hold locks.

The elite can find a niche where people don't expect it. The 5N is the PERFECT example of a FUN mech that is (yet) to be killed by silly balancing. Problem is over time the FUN mechs, generally, are killed.

[Mcgral18]

justcallme A S H, on 21 January 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

haha yep. Bows3r did a pretty special job. Same as seeing Dragon-5Ns running around after worlds and EmP keeping it a secret beforehand.

I mean the players running around in these mechs/builds from the upper echelon are not good at the game and can't really run the builds the way they should be - But none the less - the top tier does truly have a very good influence on the game and players respond to it. The respond far better to that than some LRMageddon user sitting 800m back in YoloQ yelling at people to hold locks.

The elite can find a niche where people don't expect it. The 5N is the PERFECT example of a FUN mech that is (yet) to be killed by silly balancing. Problem is over time the FUN mechs, generally, are killed.

The SHD2H is an adequate substitute
More fragile, higher mounts, same cooldown potential (but no Jam quirks, I go normal AC2s)


Always been a fun robot, and can have greater cooldowns than ever before with the Skill Cloud (27 VS 25%)

[Mystere]

justcallme A S H, on 21 January 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

It's a token nerf just like this whole heat-node change. There is maybe a difference is some spreadsheet calculation but in the real world translation, ain't gonna make a difference really.

In other words, it's a freaking waste of very limited time, money, effort, and other development resources that should have been spent on something else.

After 5 long years, nothing has changed much. That grates me. <smh>

[justcallme A S H]

I actually need to dust off my SHDs, I haven't really used them since skill maze came out. This patch might just make that happen

[MischiefSC]

justcallme A S H, on 21 January 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

I actually need to dust off my SHDs, I haven't really used them since skill maze came out. This patch might just make that happen

The S variant one, I forget which, was beastly. 2xac5, 3xsrm2, with quirks and tree it was almost 18 DPS you could sustain u til the bins were empty.

It was fun.

Ac10, 3xsrm4 was punchy for the tonnage.

[justcallme A S H]

So the facts and math came out and all the first 1-3 page posters have gone to ground?

I just math'd this one up as well... Given the mech is tonnage limited.

6MPL LBK
Current
28.5 (10.5%) = 2.9925. Total heat = 25.5057

New
28.5 (8.4%) = 2.394. Total heat = 26.106

Total difference of 0.60 extra heat.

19cDHS is dissipating roughly 3.6 heat a second (off top of my head). That obviously does not include coolrun node buffs either.
So at ~3.6h/ps the 0.60 extra heat means it's taking an extra 0.17 seconds to cool off.

Not sure I'm gonna find .17 seconds to cool, MWO is too fast paced brah