56 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 12:31 AM, said:

not really because its not completely random. you know when youre going to run out of ammo and have to reload. you can plan accordingly.

Or you know, just have the ammunition pool gradually increase when not in use, better result. You can't reload manually, you have to fight in an encounter with low ammunition and has to reload mid fight.

It's not just about having to stop at random due to random jam, it's about having to stop at all.

There's no tactical reload in game -- unless they add one. People have to empty their magazines upon nothing to top up their magazines for the next encounter, thereby wasting ammunition just so they could have a better ammunition pool in the next engagement. Lest if they do so, they cannot just simply participate effectively.

No, just no. You are sacrificing a lot of quality-of-life just for some nodes people can live without. That is just so god ******* damn stupid.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 January 2018 - 01:11 AM.

[Vellron2005]

For me, the worst weapons are LRM5 because they have no place on the battlefield, due to excessive amounts of AMS, and clan AC's.. cose' It never crossed my mind to mount one, compared to UACs..

RAC2 is also bad

Also, ATM3s are bad because a single AMS nullifies them completely.

Also.. it took all of 6 posts for somebody on this thread to dump on LRMs in general.. I'm impressed. I thought it would be in the OP..

I still find it hilarious when the big boys dump on LRMs, then I dump LRMs on them.. and then they QQ on the forums..

Edited by Vellron2005, 23 January 2018 - 12:53 AM.

[MischiefSC]

IS small lasers.

RAC2

LRMs
All terrible.

[Burning2nd]

BenAran, on 22 January 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

I have to say:
Until the piranha comes, nothing can utilize micros sufficiently.

Ive had great success with the micro's

most people just cant play @ 150meters or less

[Lily from animove]

BEST EGG, on 22 January 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

You've a recent KDR of roughly half, and rank in the bottom 25% of players. Do I smell a salty LRM boater bad?

LRMs are fine and most definitely have a place in the game.

their palce is only amongst the low skilled low tiered players. sure they aren't the worst by usability but mostly pointless for skilled palyers.

[Khobai]

Quote

It's not just about having to stop at random due to random jam, it's about having to stop at all.

every other weapon has to stop firing when it goes on cooldown

itd be no different if the RAC had to stop firing while it reloaded its magazine

the only difference is the RAC would be able to fire multiple times before going on cooldown. but the concept is the exactly same as how other weapons work: they shoot then go on cooldown.

the benefit is that cooldown nodes would buff RACs by lowering the reload cooldown. and youd get rid of RNG jamming in favor of a much more consistent and predictable mechanic.

you could also get rid of spoolup then. since having a long cooldown to reload would be enough of a downside.

Edited by Khobai, 23 January 2018 - 01:20 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 01:15 AM, said:

every other weapon has to stop firing when it goes on cooldown

itd be no different if the RAC had to stop firing while it reloaded its magazine

Except most other weapons cooldown every after shot, the RACs would enter cooldown only after a set amount of rounds expended, in which if not expended completely at the first fight, you have to reload mid-fight at the next fight that severely limits your total output, as opposed of just "reloading" in the middle of the fights. Or as opposed of having to waste ammunition so you top up your ammunition by your next encounter.

******* stupid.

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 01:15 AM, said:

the only difference is the RAC would be able to fire multiple times before going on cooldown. but the concept is the exactly same as how other weapons work: they shoot then go on cooldown.

So does the idea of fixed jam and gradually replenishing ammunition, except it wouldn't be an ergonomic nightmare. And no, not because "it goes on cooldown" means it's the same as other weapons, it has different uses, different mechanics, so arguing that other weapons enter cooldown is ********.

What if i told you that MGs, Flamers, and TAGs don't have cooldown? Sure they aren't ACs, but the RACs aren't just ACs -- they are RACs.

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 01:15 AM, said:

the benefit is that cooldown nodes would buff RACs by lowering the reload cooldown. and youd get rid of RNG jamming in favor of a much more consistent and predictable mechanic.

So what? you can also get an even more consistent and predictable mechanic by having a fixed gauge, "ammunition" that gradually "replenishes" over time when you stop shooting. You don't need to waste ammunition to top it up for the next fight, it "reloads" automatically, it also does not shortens your shooting time in the next fight if you didn't reload, win win. This insistence of yours is just so some sad nodes could have some use -- instead of just repurposing them, or having a different effect.

Again, an ergonomic nightmare, it's ******* stupid.

Okay sure, lets say you can reload manually? What the hell is this, Call of doody (Duty)?

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 01:15 AM, said:

you could also get rid of spoolup then. since having a long cooldown to reload would be enough of a downside.

No, uncharacteristic of a video-game "minigun". The cooldown wouldn't be that long if you weren't just insisting this idiotic reload sequence.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 January 2018 - 01:37 AM.

[ZaccaR]

all Ultra AC, hate teh completely randomized Jamming mechanic. specially when it happens at the very first shot. It used to be jam chance if doubble tabbed, when did that change ? (yeah had a realy long break and didnt read up on all the patchnotes since cbt

[BenAran]

Burning2nd, on 23 January 2018 - 01:02 AM, said:

Ive had great success with the micro's

most people just cant play @ 150meters or less

on a viper I assume.
I tried it but er micros just simply do not bring enough damage.

[Daggett]

Metus regem, on 22 January 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

I'd have to say LRM's are at the bottom... though the RAC/2 isn't far behind.

The reason why I still consider LRM's the worst of the worst, is what they rely on to be viable. They need your target to not have any situational awareness. It is the only weapon system with so many hard counters built into the game:

ECM
AMS
LAMS
Terrain
Minimum range
Good piloting

Count them, that is 6 hard counters to one weapon system, that's three times the hard counters of direct fire weapon systems!

That being said, LRM's are useful for suppression or flushing someone from cover, if I can mount even a LRM/5 or 10 on a mech I usually take one with a ton of ammo, just to give me something to do as I close the gap with a slower mech, but as a primary weapon system, no thanks.

Though i agree that LRMs are unreliable, your list of counters is kinda skewed:

• AMS and LAMS are the same counter just in a different flavor. That's if i would count every rock on a map and present you a list with 100+ counters.
  
• Terrain and minimum range is what good pilots use to avoid getting lurmed. You can either count Terrain and Min range OR combine them them into good piloting. But listing all three separately is just inflating the real amount of counters.

For interest here is my Definition:
Hard counters:

• Just AMS because AMS is the only counter that can't be countered by a smart lurmer and not even avoided if the AMS mech can anticipate your movement.

Soft Counters:

• ECM because it can be countered by Narc, Tag and BAP/CAP.
  
• Terrain because fast/mobile Lurm-boats can flank around or simply choose other targets.
  
• Minimum range is similar to terrain. It's hard to underrun a reasonably fast lurmer if this presents your flank to his whole team or if he is even faster than you.

This implies that assaults are suboptimal platforms for lurming even when they are close to their team and try to support them. They are simply too slow to counter terrain and their minimum range weakness and are wasting a lot of their missile's potential. They are hit much harder by all soft-counters.

Faster mechs however can do quite well with lurms even under suboptimal conditions at least in solo-qp. They are still too unreliable to do great consistently but when played well they can be at least decent unless you go comp of cause. I think they are a QP weapon and have their place there. I'd only wish people would start to play them better...

Edited by Daggett, 23 January 2018 - 06:01 AM.

[Admiral-Dan]

BenAran, on 22 January 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

Out of all the weapons in the game, the RAC2 is definitely the worst in my opinion, closely followed by the er micro and micro pulse.

Nah, Er-Micro and Micro Pulse are far worse than RAC.

[Burke IV]

CLRM5. Has to be because its all but non functional. I expect IS are in a similar boat. How do you deal with facetime? LRM5s in a steam. So as hvy lasers come into the game the CLRM5 and friends had to go

[HauptmanT]

Maxxi, on 22 January 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

SSRM. I can't fire these things properly. To much time to target lock, slow fire, AND heavier than SRM? I prefer normal SRM with more ammo to shoot thanks.

Are you using Artemis?

"But you cant put artemis on streaks!"

Still improves lock times, and is free (weight). I cant guarantee it works, but it sure feels like it does, I have a couple streak boats, and the artemis button is the first 'upgrade' I press... So dont really have much to compare it too... since I havent used a non-artemis streak in over a year.

[IllCaesar]

ER Micro's are in bad shape due to lack of hardpoints and their heatgen. Hardly any situation where they're preferrable to CERSL.

RAC2 is almost entirely pointless compared to the RAC5. Its only apparently advantages over the RAC5 are its range and its two less tons of weight. You could use that extra tonnage to fit in what would be vital ammunition but you'll have a hard time getting through that ammo because it has a fire rate and jam rate almost perfectly identical to the RAC5. If it jams just as frequently and it has the same fire rate for exactly half the damage of the RAC5 then the only thing you have going for you is range. Its not a mech killer, its for stuff like aircraft and tanks, things that don't have a place in MWO's strict PvP.

LRM5's best usage is not as a weapon but as a 2.5/3 ton spotter. That's easily its most disqualifying element. Fire it off and use the enemy AMS shooting off to locate them. Any AMS will destroy the whole volley though, essentially making it a weighty way to spot enemies in a solo pug. To do any actual damage they need to be boated and if you're boating LRM5 its just a heat inefficient LRM15/LRM20 that uses up all of your real hardpoints and leaves you with barely any backup energy hardpoints. Clan LRM5's are basically the same deal but at least then you have omnipods so you're not just using six LRM5's and one ML as backup because you used all of your hardpoints for LRM5's.

[Burning2nd]

BenAran, on 23 January 2018 - 03:41 AM, said:

on a viper I assume.

Nope, you guys are thinking to much in to this.. your over looking another mechanic of the game

[Brain Cancer]

NimoStar, on 22 January 2018 - 11:22 PM, said:

Really, missiles in general have many limitations, including the "Missile tube" ones. THey are some of the most ammo-hungry weapons, they get shot down and occupy both heat and weight (inc. ammo), have not got many slots, are generally slow to get to target, have spread, and have many countermeasures (as oppossed to zero for lasers, also zero spread and infinite speed, lower tonnage, more hardpoints and no need for ammo)

Oh, and they got Artemis nerfed (and ATMs with them) just so they'd be even worse at direct fire and spread further. Why, I have no idea. Something something potato something lurmageddon something something skill ceiling.

[Brain Cancer]

Vellron2005, on 23 January 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

I still find it hilarious when the big boys dump on LRMs, then I dump LRMs on them.. and then they QQ on the forums..

That's because people detest being tickled to death. It's like finding out your entire team in CS was knifed to death from across an AWP map with no cover. You only feel defiled by it, because you know it took making truly epic levels of dumb moves to end up that way.

Ironically, if LRMs were better, they'd probably get less of a reaction.