28 replies to this topic

[Armored Yokai]

There have been things adjusted/remove due to abuse or community complaints and there have been unnecessary changes and this brings a bigger question. How exactly is balance decided?

Does PGI send out "spies" who play the game and they give feedback on what is good or what is bad or do they like have some random kid in a cage who screams what weapons/mechs need changes every time you throw dice at them? it's understandable that the game is hard to balance with all the whining and being a small company but surely there must be other ways to fix problems than just slapping minor buffs and nerfs on something.

I honestly also don't agree with allowing Competitive players to help on balance because there's a chance it may be biased to allow more benefits to them rather than casual players (Buff all sniper weapons and laservomit), after all Balance is all about being unbiased and keeping everything viable and properly structured to prevent 1 thing having more power than the other but sadly something like mounting ECM/Lasers/Radar Deprivation to counter lrms (which are already easily beaten by hiding behind cover or rushing the lrm boat) can render it completely useless.

Edited by Armored Yokai, 22 January 2018 - 05:20 AM.

[BenAran]

simply put, PGI has telemetry data.
They can see how many shots of AC5 have been shot in total, by who, when, at what distance, if they hit, etc.
So basically they can analyze that data and make their own conclusions.
Now, obviously, they get the wrong conclusions half of the time, but still, thats how they do it.

[Burke IV]

PGI staff move amongst tier one and if anybody owns them too hard they nerf that weapon no seriously...

[sycocys]

Basically they print off all the numbers for mechs and weapons then tape them to the wall blindfold up and throw darts at it.

If it gets hit by a blue dart it gets buffs.

If it gets hit by a red dart it gets nerfed.

How many darts hit the same spot determine the amount of buff or debuff.

[Lily from animove]

see the yhave that piranha in their office, they make some advanced bone reading, they just buy some boned meat, throw it in and whatever the remaind looks like gets interpreted and nerfed or buffed.

I hope hes, fine, or does the "in memory" cockpit item mean hes dead?

Edited by Lily from animove, 22 January 2018 - 06:15 AM.

[El Bandito]

From what I assumed, the Balance Underling seems to collect data on weapon/mech usage and then decide to nerf the popular ones that bring victories. He will then send his proposal to the Balance Overlord, and gets his approval on implementing the changes. Both of them don't have much actual combat experience though--they are more akin to armchair generals.

[Armored Yokai]

BenAran, on 22 January 2018 - 05:28 AM, said:

simply put, PGI has telemetry data.
They can see how many shots of AC5 have been shot in total, by who, when, at what distance, if they hit, etc.
So basically they can analyze that data and make their own conclusions.

do they include the fact that people waste shots and fire at nothing?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Burke IV, on 22 January 2018 - 05:50 AM, said:

PGI staff move amongst tier one and if anybody owns them too hard they nerf that weapon no seriously...

Nice dragon bowling reference.

[Bombast]

1. Analyze data
2. Identify user favorites
3. Identify theoretically related gear that's been abandoned because it's useless
4. Attempt to balance by nerfing favorites to uselessness through most round about way possible

[Y E O N N E]

You are familiar with the "Magic Eight-ball" , yes?

[Water Bear]

There are lots of ways to do it.

It can be made more or less mathematical. If you have enough game data you can do statistics and cook up pretty convincing evidence of an imbalance. (Source: I'm graduating with a PhD in math this semester).

You can do some elementary game theory to analyze various in game situations, too: If one player is averaging (sufficiently) more damage than another player in a given scenario, we know who will win that scenario. This is why players "reposition" in the real game - they are losing trades, for example.

People tend to listen to competetive players because it's assumed that they want a fair fight, and that they are always chosing the optimal strategy. Your average Joe prefers to pay for an advantage (we know this to be true because of the dirth of "pay to win" games that exist in the real world). Moreover, pro players have superior knowledge of the game and suprior skill. I do not trust the average Joe in T5 to have any idea when he lost due to his own incompetence or due to an actual imbalance that exists in the game.

Edited by Water Bear, 22 January 2018 - 07:07 AM.

[whatthecrapisthis]

Hey don't you worry your pretty little head about what Daddy Russ dose. Play the game and make sure you get that next mech pak, because the last one released will be nerfed. So if you want to keep up get that pak. Ya dig.

[Sjorpha]

It's decided by people who are doing their best to improve balance, but simply aren't very good at it.

[El Bandito]

Sjorpha, on 22 January 2018 - 07:11 AM, said:

It's decided by people who are doing their best to improve balance, but simply aren't very good at it.

Scary thing is, PGI guys don't seem to realize that they are not doing a good job. As someone once said, “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”

Edited by El Bandito, 22 January 2018 - 08:35 AM.

[Bud Crue]

“How is balance decided?”

After ceasing my hysterical laughter and then stifling the desire to respond with a summer child or John Snow reference, I ended up with this:

Balance is not decided at all. Balance is an artificial construct that PGI pretends to ever be seeking but will never achieve because they don’t know what they are balancing for. You cannot balance when you don’t know where the scales are or how to use them. There is no balance, there never was and there never will be.

As long as these people can look at their metrics and assert things like the widest performance difference between all chassis is 8% (a Vindicator say is only 8% difference in performance than say an MKII), and from that conclude “balance is the best its ever been”, there is no point in worrying about balance, because those doing the balancing don’t even know what the word means let alone how to achieve it.

[Asym]

Or, letting "technicians" decide how pilot should fight..... Wow, a receipt for a class A mess.... In-balance is the areana for conflict; and, conflict is the means by which cultures adapt; and, in fighting every inch of the way adapting, innovation is the tool to escape the process of self-destruction......and, we start all over again because life isn't fair and technicians are always trying to make life fair.......

[Admiral-Dan]

Armored Yokai, on 22 January 2018 - 05:19 AM, said:

How exactly is balance decided?

[ShaneoftheDead]

PGI has all the data they need. I fear they have it poorly organized, and thus causing them to draw the wrong conclusions after analysis. Also, it is evident that they ignore things they should be paying attention to.

For example: Presently, it seems PGI believes that the following two Mechs have the same Tier value when I pilot them.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...28f236194a11a0b
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7b6333e0406f6c7

[w4ldO]

https://youtu.be/wz-PtEJEaqY

[BEST EGG]

The balance is done to maximize salt and whining on the forums, especially from bad pilots and people who don't display PSR. PGI doesn't run this game to make money - rather to entertain themselves while swimming in the endless river of pubby tears.