39 replies to this topic

[Damnedtroll]

Some will bring more steak boat fast light with bap to go fishing. Will try it tonight, lol

[K O Z A K]

TWIAFU, on 23 January 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

Or, maybe, people know the Clan advantage in combat and refuse to allow that advantage to be used.

By playing enough, you can see pattern and habit.

For example;

I may know you, as example, like to bring ERLL, PPCs, and Ultra10/5s. I will use that knowledge to inform my team and use it against you. Just like people know if you see ATM mechs, you rush them and watch them crumple as the walk backwards.

total lies, like 3/4 of my mechs are lrm boats.....the other 1/4 are tag boats

[General Solo]

Assassins have less leg Armour than linebackers
Just sayin

[TWIAFU]

Hazeclaw, on 23 January 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

total lies, like 3/4 of my mechs are lrm boats.....the other 1/4 are tag boats

Hehe, didn't want to disparage you in public, so, I gave examples to illustrate a point.

And want to talk about lies, those were not TAG but light TAG and very bold to stack so many.



/humor

[Arcanoz]

El Bandito, on 23 January 2018 - 07:03 AM, said:

Except (MS) never do it to kill off the base. We do it for effective tonnage trading, by butt ****** heavier mechs--that is the priority, and then do damage to the base with the leftovers, but we never use Crab rush for the sole intent of destroying the base. Unless the other team is racing us.

People should know that by now.

mhh....like HPG? when you were losing badly 3th wave and base rushed to " secure the win" with a swarm of assassis/crabs..ahh okok..run and secure the win when you are trading bad..fair enuff

[El Bandito]

Arcanoz, on 25 January 2018 - 04:19 AM, said:

mhh....like HPG? when you were losing badly 3th wave and base rushed to " secure the win" with a swarm of assassis/crabs..ahh okok..run and secure the win when you are trading bad..fair enuff

Any sensible drop caller would go for objectives if the match is going badly. We are just not known for doing it right off the bat.

[GX9900 Gundam X]

El Bandito, on 23 January 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

12 DPS unaffected by map heat,

They put Laser Heatsinks into MWO now?

[Roland09]

*** Please disregard.

Edited by Roland09, 25 January 2018 - 03:12 PM.

[El Bandito]

GX9900 Gundam X, on 25 January 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

They put Laser Heatsinks into MWO now?

Machine guns.

[Kubernetes]

How many turret hits can a Piranha take?

[El Bandito]

Kubernetes, on 25 January 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

How many turret hits can a Piranha take?

Several. A lance of Piranha can destroy the turret before it can shoot twice.

[zolop]

Something I do not understand, is it that hard to defend a base, with walls and turrets? I can understand hit registration is making certain mech very difficult to kill, but when did teamwork become the new cheat? This is why their is few game modes that are more than just kill the enemy mechs (to tough to defend base?) IF a lance of lights is working as a team to attack the main OBJ, why not work with a group of players (EG 4) that have high alpha damage output mechs that stay at main base (EG a heavy or a really specialized Medium).

When did group and team organization be despised so much...

Edited by zolop, 25 January 2018 - 11:04 PM.

[zolop]

El Bandito, on 25 January 2018 - 04:26 AM, said:

Any sensible drop caller would go for objectives if the match is going badly. We are just not known for doing it right off the bat.

I try to go for objectives every time unless I am in a assault or a slow heavy. As a medium I might flank, otherwise hit the base if I am getting hit by far range high alphas. If I had a group to play with, would go for objectives every time, if I was in a light. Opponent doesn't want to adapt to difference game modes (by working as a team and defending where needed), not my problem. I do quick plays of King of the Hill and Skirmish game modes even though I really don't have much fun in them, try to go for the objectives though even in those (though they are really, really simple).

[Sjorpha]

Arcanoz, on 25 January 2018 - 04:19 AM, said:

mhh....like HPG? when you were losing badly 3th wave and base rushed to " secure the win" with a swarm of assassis/crabs..ahh okok..run and secure the win when you are trading bad..fair enuff

What's wrong with going for objectives to prevent a loss? Seem pretty legit to me.

Going for objectives shouldn't be a problem at all imo, the problem with incursion is that it's too easy and that both teams have bases so it's impossible to plan for defending really. So the expectation becomes that it is to be fought in between so teams move forward, if a rushing team runs past them it's literally impossible to stop. A design problem.

Stronger base and only one team has a base is the solution, then you know if you're defending that a rush may come and you'll stay near base until you know. Like in invasion rushes can be stopped.

[K O Z A K]

zolop, on 25 January 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

Something I do not understand, is it that hard to defend a base, with walls and turrets? I can understand hit registration is making certain mech very difficult to kill, but when did teamwork become the new cheat? This is why their is few game modes that are more than just kill the enemy mechs (to tough to defend base?) IF a lance of lights is working as a team to attack the main OBJ, why not work with a group of players (EG 4) that have high alpha damage output mechs that stay at main base (EG a heavy or a really specialized Medium).

When did group and team organization be despised so much...

Yes, its basically not possible to defend the base. If it were a lance of lights it would be doable. When its a semi organized 12man with 4 waves of fast mechs defending base is not happening. Killing the base should be more difficult than just throwing assassins/linebackers at it

[Jman5]

zolop, on 25 January 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

Something I do not understand, is it that hard to defend a base, with walls and turrets? I can understand hit registration is making certain mech very difficult to kill, but when did teamwork become the new cheat? This is why their is few game modes that are more than just kill the enemy mechs (to tough to defend base?) IF a lance of lights is working as a team to attack the main OBJ, why not work with a group of players (EG 4) that have high alpha damage output mechs that stay at main base (EG a heavy or a really specialized Medium).

When did group and team organization be despised so much...

Yes, it's incredibly hard.

The base layouts are wide open and huge on most maps which makes it difficult for defenders to respond to areas of attack. The walls are destructible or can just be jump jetted over. The base defenses are weak. The base targets are exposed which means you can often shoot them without even entering the base.

The victory conditions are set up so that you will win just by having more damage to the base than the other team. So even if you mount a successful defense and survive the first wave rush, you are still losing. Even if you stopped everyone except one guy who briefly grazed one building you are now losing. So this means I not only have to spot them, but I have to intercept and kill them all before they get within range of 1 building.

The worst part about countering objective rushes is the uncertainty. If I knew the other team was base rushing with lights, there are builds I can drop in that would help. However for every incursion game I play where I face a rush, I play one without any base pressure. If I'm derping around in some anti-light mech while the other team is trying to fight off 12 assault mechs, I'm screwing the team. So I'm left with a conundrum. Whichever mech I drop in I'll be screwed a lot of times.

Incursion in Faction Play is badly balanced in favor of objective rushing. In quickplay you can just mount a solid defense and you'll win if you play well. In Faction Play the respawn system screws things up because worst case scenario all they gotta do is a little damage to the base and then just play for time.

Edited by Jman5, 26 January 2018 - 10:10 PM.

[Yondu Udonta]

At least you could somewhat mitigate an omega rush in siege by bodyblocking ogens. How the **** are you gonna bodyblock them bigass buildings in incursion. I say this mode needs to be removed from FP.

[zolop]

Jman5, on 26 January 2018 - 09:55 PM, said:

Yes, it's incredibly hard.

The base layouts are wide open and huge on most maps which makes it difficult for defenders to respond to areas of attack. The walls are destructible or can just be jump jetted over. The base defenses are weak. The base targets are exposed which means you can often shoot them without even entering the base.

The victory conditions are set up so that you will win just by having more damage to the base than the other team. So even if you mount a successful defense and survive the first wave rush, you are still losing. Even if you stopped everyone except one guy who briefly grazed one building you are now losing. So this means I not only have to spot them, but I have to intercept and kill them all before they get within range of 1 building.

The worst part about countering objective rushes is the uncertainty. If I knew the other team was base rushing with lights, there are builds I can drop in that would help. However for every incursion game I play where I face a rush, I play one without any base pressure. If I'm derping around in some anti-light mech while the other team is trying to fight off 12 assault mechs, I'm screwing the team. So I'm left with a conundrum. Whichever mech I drop in I'll be screwed a lot of times.

Incursion in Faction Play is badly balanced in favor of objective rushing. In quickplay you can just mount a solid defense and you'll win if you play well. In Faction Play the respawn system screws things up because worst case scenario all they gotta do is a little damage to the base and then just play for time.

I agree with base's being too exposed so that it is possible to hit objectives without being inside the enemy base is a problem. I also agree this game mode based on damage to base is not good either, instead it should be how many critical facilities are destroyed.

If players are working as a team, there should be a mech at the base to defend with the bases turrets. Light rushing is a viable tactic, as they do not have the firepower as a heavy but when working as a lance they are powerful. Can we really blame light pilots for using the mechs the way they should be used, outmanuaver the slower mechs (and go for OBJs)? Its like saying lights shouldn't go cap points in conquest... Lights excel at doing recon and flanking, if someone on my team asked me to do so I would keep patrolling the outside of the base (with any weight class of mech). The best part of a battle to me is the uncertainty, it makes the players adapt and create new strategies to win the objectives, while forcing a team to work as a team.

I get bad games at times to in quick play modes because I take a brawler then I get Polar Highlands. Then the opposite happens at time, I take a Long Range build with a good alpha, then get maps that are more for brawling. The who selection process in Quick Play can be a disappointing process because of wrong mech selection for a unknown variable.

If you want a team to work as a team, a base cannot be totally impenetrable, with the exception of objectives being in line of fire from outside the base. I will admit in pub play its uncertain a lot of times that the team will work together or players will have the right mech for incursion, but that is also on PGI's end. It would be a lot easier if we launched a game using this selection menu (assuming 4 mechs per player)

-> Click Quick Play
-> Select game mode and map
-> Select 4 mechs, (1 light, 1 medium, 1 heavy and one assault) or use faction play Drop Decks...

In the end though, I've been in the MWO game since open beta and CW/FW has not developed into much. I was hoping Warframe levels of Endgame Meta (Clan Dojos, Player Ships, Player factory, Weapon crafting, PvP).

Edited by zolop, 07 February 2018 - 01:44 PM.

[Kwea]

Hobbles v, on 23 January 2018 - 06:50 AM, said:

Not like MS isnt base rushing with crabs.

We don't mostly. No need to since most of our crab rushes are for legs of mechs and we usually trade for triple tonnage when we do it.

We will if people won't come out and fight, or as a last resort, but the first 2 waves in particular we would rather fight.

Edited by Kwea, 16 February 2018 - 06:38 PM.

[meteorol]

Well, objective rushing is in the game, so units will use it to win matches they otherwise would have lost.

For SOME units, this sadly means using objective rushes as primary tactic against pugs.

"Daaaang negative w/l and k/d in QP, means i'm a liablity to my team whenever i actually have to shoot mechs and i'm more likely to make my team lose than to make them win... pew atleast a can win by objective rushing pugs in CW to get easy wins and feel like i'm actually not terrible at this game"