42 replies to this topic

[LowSubmarino]

Seriously.

When I run my summoner, I dont even have to take any mobility skills whatsoever. It turns smoothly and super quick for a heavy. better than most mediums that are much, much lighter.

It doesnt matter how much mobility skills I take for my shadowhawk....it turns as slugglish as if its running and turning through glue. There are some exceptions. Shadowcat you dont have to take a single point of mobility. Honestly. Not even a single point. And especialyl with masc its as agile as a light. Even better than some lights. It moves great. Same with uziel.

But shadowhawk or Centurion for example, damn. For the life of me, i cant play those mechs anymore. They are way, way x 1000 too sluggish for mechs that tiny and low weight. There has been a tendancy over the years to consistently nerf mobile snipers, mobile mechs in general and now mediums too.

Why do they move so insanely sluggish even if you put evry last point into mobility. Mobility doesnt even do anything no matter if you use it or not. I have to take an XL engine in the shadowhawk if I want to run decent loadouts and get some speed to at least give clan mechs a bit of a fight.

Why do you think in tournaments ppl mostly play clan mechs?

Is mediums suck. IS XL engines....suck.

Is mobility...sucks. hard.

Fix mobility. Fix IS mediums.

This is the reason 90 % of my mechs are clan. They simply move a thousand times better.

Shadowhawk moved so smoothly back in the days. It could turn super quickly. move the torso. Now...it feels abysmal. Jsut abysmal. I wont run those any longer.

[Spheroid]

I have no idea why you are comparing all mediums to an extreme heavy outlier.

Why don't you go compare an Uziel to a Roughneck and end this thread? Also I fail to see why you created a second topic, your Shadowhawk thread was sufficient.

Edited by Spheroid, 30 January 2018 - 10:21 AM.

[Bombast]

You'll find few people that wouldn't agree that there are huge swathes of useless medium mechs, left behind by rescales, quirk passes and the inescapable grasp of power creep. But the weight class as a whole has not been nerfed into the ground.

[FireStoat]

The Bushwacker is a simply amazing IS medium mech. With survival skill tree picks it can walk around with the armor of a clan base 75 ton mech, and it has ample hardpoint choices for whatever you want to throw on it. It's front profile is also very favorable for trades. It literally has no downsides, excluding the ability to mount jujmp jets.
Now, if all the other IS mediums could be brought up close to its performance ability so it wasn't the blatant, obvious choice, we'd be on to something.

Clan have choices of the Huntsman, Hunchback IIC, Nova, and Stormcrow as solid picks while the ice ferret & viper sort of stand around looking stupid after the massive small pulse laser nerf. But I guess we have to wait like another 8 months or some other demented time span until the situation is reviewed.

[Water Bear]

Yea, this thread is a bit of an exaggeration. There are several mediums that do quite well. I know because I use some of them.

[Requiemking]

I think you'll find the Light weight class is in a much worse state than the mediums. Most of them are non-viable, with only a few extreme examples really being used(such as the tank Urbie, the crit Lynx, the Locust, and a couple others).

[Windscape]

IS mediums have been nerfed hard. While not all have been nerfed, IS mediums has the least amount of viable mechs (2nd only to IS lights)

However the Buswacker is awesome
The Shadowhawk 2d2 is still a decent brawler
The crabs are decent (but boooring)
And i even use my wolverine 6k from time to time. Seriously, if that thing had 2x the arm armor it has now, it would be godlike, as that mech has lots of quirks to make up for that big weakness.

Edited by Windscape, 30 January 2018 - 11:23 AM.

[Kubernetes]

Oneda has a point. Summoner agility should be baseline for mediums, whereas right now it's more agile than almost every medium. It's crazy how sluggish the BJ and Shadowhawk are. These used to be fun mechs to play, but now they're molasses. I take out my Summoner more and more because it feels right.

[Requiemking]

Kubernetes, on 30 January 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

Oneda has a point. Summoner agility should be baseline for mediums, whereas right now it's more agile than almost every medium. It's crazy how sluggish the BJ and Shadowhawk are. These used to be fun mechs to play, but now they're molasses. I take out my Summoner more and more because it feels right.

Linebacker agility should be utilised as the baseline for Light agility, and then the Linebacker's agility should be dropped to 55 toner agility.

[Bud Crue]

I’m torn by this thread.

On the one hand I love a couple of my Crabs, I still enjoy my Cicada 3M, I have fun with a couple of Hunchbros and Centurions. I like my dual LBX 10 Bushie and even the P1 and all its SRMs, and I still prefer a couple of my Griffins in scouting over just about anything. Then I think, yeah my Shadowhawks look and move more like Awesomes than a medium mech. Only two of my Cicadas are ever played and Locusts are frankly a better choice. So too Phoenix Hawks in that I can run a Wolfhound and hit harder with a smaller profile. The Griffin S is hot garbage, my Enforcers are blah (though the Ghillie can give some lols), what has been done to the BJs is out righ criminal when one thinks about how this mech has been manipulated by PGI over the years (though I admit I still love the 1). I don’t own the Trebs and Kintaro’s and I know folks are pretty mixed about them as well.

So, Mediums nerfed Into the ground? Sure, some of them feel that way, but others are still a lot of fun and I can’t ask for much more than that. Like I say, I am torn on this one.

I think maybe a survey would be useful because my gut tells me that a way to make the class better would be to give any that run XL predominantly or out of necessity, lack hard points or hard point height, or are forced into mixed loadouts ought to have agility quirks up the wazoo and/or decent defensive quirks to boot. But seriously I think I would give a good look at what folks are running and why before I started dinking with values. Alas PGI will probably see this thread, reduce agility across all mediums to differentiate the class further from lights, and flip a few mechs structure over to armor like they have done with just about every other mech of late and call it good; thereby addressing none of the underperfomers and incentivizing us all to run fast heavies more than we already do. Sigh.

Edited by Bud Crue, 30 January 2018 - 11:52 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Some medium mechs are suffering more than others. It is true that mechs like the Shadow Hawk are suffering, but then there are mechs like the the Storm Crow that are delivering excellent firepower or my favorite, the Cicada which is just a really powerful performer. Heck, even the ECM equipped sniper Phoenix Hawk is a solid player for me.

Again, some mediums are struggling a bit (maybe the more traditional ballistic ones like the Centurion, Enforcer, Shadow Hawk, etc...) are suffering a bit, but on the flip side, many other models are doing well.

It just depends on the specific model of medium, and even then, many players can make those mechs shine too.

[MechaBattler]

Summoner is an exception not the rule. A lot of heavies, especially clan heavies, have lower agility stats. The Uziel has the highest agility stats for it's tonnage. So you shouldn't base you expectations on outlier mechs. Especially as both need that extra agility to make up for their weaknesses.

[FuzzyNZ]

I agree with OP, but as the Shadowhawk has the same agility as the Bushwacker, should we also be complaining about the Bushwacker too?

People say the Bushwacker is quite good as it is now, but would it need an agility buff?

[Tordin]

Huh. Not often I hear complaints about mediums, or heavies for htat matter.
The Shadow Hawk is still a solid performer, as a specialist or generalist. Came to think of it... need to get around piloting them more..

[Water Bear]

Kubernetes, on 30 January 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

Oneda has a point. Summoner agility should be baseline for mediums, whereas right now it's more agile than almost every medium. It's crazy how sluggish the BJ and Shadowhawk are. These used to be fun mechs to play, but now they're molasses. I take out my Summoner more and more because it feels right.

IMO, the BJ is not really that bad. The -1X has very high energy hardpoints and lots of them. The BJ-1 is still hilariously fun to go UAC 20 pop tart...not the best build, but you can get your base line "I didn't do nothing" 300-400 damage per round out of it.

FuzzyNZ, on 30 January 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

I agree with OP, but as the Shadowhawk has the same agility as the Bushwacker, should we also be complaining about the Bushwacker too?

People say the Bushwacker is quite good as it is now, but would it need an agility buff?

People like mechs like the Bushwacker because
1) they're newly released
2) they're newly released
3) they're newly released
4) they have good hitboxes
5) they're newly released

[Battlemaster56]

I still fibd my IS mediums more agile than my clan mediums, heck my Arctic Wolf is sluggish compare to the Assassin which the top IS striker platform. Is mediums have been nerfed yes, is it game breaking no.

Also ehy use a outlier like the Summoner, the mech needs it for compensation for generally it's limited build paths and tonnage of a medium, I go far as the Linebacker but that's another topic for later discussions

Plus the reason for clsn mechs being picked more is simple, they do more damage get damage out more reliably, and their tech is generally better on everyway.

IS needs some core features buffed, to get back to be competitive, and quirks is very unreliable. Their so much to list to help IS agian another topic.

[Mole]

There is not a thing wrong with my IS Mediums. Especially not my Crab, which is the 'mech that earned me my Ace of Spades. My Assassin, Cicada, and Pheonix Hawks have the mobility of a friggin' light 'mech and my Blackjack, Crab, Wolverine, Vindicator, and Uziel come close to light levels of mobility. My Centurion, Hunchback, and Bushwhacker tank well while also remaining quite mobile and my Shadowhawk makes a superb 3 ERLL sniper. My Griffin rocks 2 Snub PPCs and 4 LMGs like a boss (using the loyalty variant) and my Enforcer puts out a 45 point alpha that, while not as impressive as a Heavy is certainly enough to make my target feel like they should really back the eff off. About the only two IS Mediums that I can't think of much to say about is my Trebuchet and my Kintaro. The Kintaro used to be quite good at chainfiring LRM5s but PGI has since broken that, so I'm trying to arrive at a new role for the thing. Point is, IS Mediums are not nerfed to the ground. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Bushwhacker and Assassin are currently in the meta.

Edited by Mole, 30 January 2018 - 01:42 PM.

[Water Bear]

Mole, on 30 January 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:

About the only two IS Mediums that I can't think of much to say about is my Trebuchet and my Kintaro. The Kintaro used to be quite good at chainfiring LRM5s but PGI has since broken that, so I'm trying to arrive at a new role for the thing. Point is, IS Mediums are not nerfed to the ground. In fact, I'm pretty sure the Bushwhacker and Assassin are currently in the meta.

The Treb has some good builds. The-7M can spam lurm-15s for days, with lots of ammo. Jump jets + tag = always able to find a target.

Streak boat your Kintaro FTW.

[Khobai]

most mediums need a rescaling to be the proper size

most mediums could also use a +5% max speed quirk

and yeah ISXL needs to survive side torso destruction

Edited by Khobai, 30 January 2018 - 01:50 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

The best mediums work pretty fine just like the best heavies do. Meanwhile the worst mechs of each class are bad.

We must stop making this a class struggle and realize that all bad mechs of all weight classes and all factions are in need of help.