54 replies to this topic

[Keylan Carlyle]

It's told in the books, and also mentioned in latest map release description (causic valley looks great btw).

But i dont get wyh enegy mechs have a disadvantage on high tempreture maps.

Mechs are usualy equiped with heatsinks able to cool down most of their weapons, and as enegy weapons produce more heat and wieght less, they come with lot more heatsinks.

Ill do some calculations based on tabletop rules.

40 tonns of weapon loadout

mech A tripple PPC | 10+19=29 sinks

mech B tripple AC10 (4t ammo) | 10+0=10 sinks

So the energy mech already got little heat buildup by firing all weapons and move.

Now what does hight tempreture environment mean? accordnign tt rules (and whats seems quite logical) the is a base heat generation on all mechs.

So i assume we are on a real hot environment with a +8 heat modifier.
_______________________________________________________________________

Round 1:
Both mechs give alpha and walk > A(10) B(8) [Mech(overheat)]
_______________________________________________________________________

Round 2:
Both mechs spare two weapons due to high heat while keep walking > A(0) B(13)
_______________________________________________________________________

Round 3:
Mech A Realises he just has to spare one PPC and can go on movin and firing two PPC without building up heat.
Mech B is cripped he can only cool down when not firing at all and need to stand still for 6 rounds to do so. Even after that he cant fire even one of his weapons without building up overheat.
_______________________________________________________________________

Ok this example might seem extrem, but if u lower the environmental heat the effect is still the same, just not that drastic.

So what other mechanics might work?

Skale heat production? Yeah, this might work.
The difference for the energy mechs are higher peaks in the heat/time curve. Now as those peeks might trigger the bad overheat events (movement penality / to hit penality / ammo explosion / uncusiosness / shutdown) this would be a real drawback.

But you dont need to study physics to feel double heat production is odd.


Skale heatsink efficiency? In therms of physicshats reasonalbe (if you know how heatsinks work)
Lets cut efficiency by half.
_______________________________________________________________________

Round 1:
Alpha both and walk > A(16.5) B(5)
_______________________________________________________________________

Round 2:
Spare 2 weaons and wal both > A(13) B(4)
_______________________________________________________________________

Round 3:
Repeat round 2 > A(9.5) B(3)
_______________________________________________________________________


On the long run both mechs can fire one weapon all over, and a second one every forth turn.

Now the energy based mech again get the high peaks and will produce 4+ overhead frequently. At least in tabletop at this point penelitys come into effect.

So i realy hope for both gamemechanics and realism that environmental conditions skale the efficiency of heatsinks, and high heat peaks trigger penelatys (including flickering reticle and hud, non responsive controles, blurr effects).

[Shadowscythe]

I pretty much plan on using Gauss Rifle and Flamer on that map

[Jost]

I'm not at all sure what you mean, but it sounds as though they're intending that high-heat maps will lower heatsink efficiency, so weapons will have to be fired less frequently.

[Jason1138]

i'm sure the narrarator is wrong about the game that he's helping to build

good call

[Jason1138]

or you could be wrong, it could be that


but i bet you dont think that's it, do you

[Shadowscythe]

Viper69, on 23 July 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Wow, its obvious or he doesnt know crap about battletech so which would you prefer be the answer?

The game isn't 100% BT TT would be my best guess

[Sidra]

I just dont want to use the Centurion on that map

[Viper69]

It could be that as well. I am just saying it would not make sense to deviate from tt rules in this area but stay true in others. That is my point, since your so hung up on calling people out to actually comprehend what is being said.

[Jason1138]

since ballistics generate less heat per shot, once you are within a certain distance from your overheat shut down limit you would be able to fire ballistics but not energy weapons

or starting from zero you could fire more shots per ballistics than you could with lasers or ppcs


yes, heat is heat and dissipates at the same rate regardless but instead of nit picking the choice of words you could just see that what the guy is saying is true regardless of how he says it. on that map ballistic mechs will kick the crap out of energy mechs, because of heat

[Sainamu]

Here is the physics behind it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_sink

kudos if you understand it.

[Jason1138]

"The game isn't 100% BT TT would be my best guess"


since we're starting at double armor we all know its not TT rules. or most all of us know that anyway



"since your so hung up on calling people out to actually comprehend what is being said."


aren't you the one that was just calling out the narrarator?

[Steven McWayne]

I do wonder after seeing the vids.
Arent mechs supposed to buildup heat while moving running like on the TT? O_o

[Viper69]

Yes i did because it made no sense. If its the case then so be it.

[Frank War]

Just because a mech has energy weapons does not mean it has more heat sinks. The design has to actually add them to it. The default designs are intended for normal wrolds not high heat or extreme cold.
Also weapons do not come with heat sinks.

BTW: this is all from both the books and the TT game.

[Jason1138]

"Arent mechs supposed to buildup heat while moving running like on the TT?"


yeah that's my understanding



"Yes i did because it made no sense"


it makes perfect sense to me

[Viper69]

Im happy it does make sense to you. Im still trying to wrap my head around why an energy weapon that would produce the same heat as a ballistic weapon would dissipate its heat faster than the energy weapon generated heat. That is where my confusion lies. Maybe i am mis interpreting something, help me out if i am.

[stealthed]

Sainamu, on 23 July 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Here is the physics behind it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_sink

kudos if you understand it.

Very simple. What it basically comes down to is that with a bigger heat difference and a bigger surface heat dissapates faster . Heat sinks add a lot of surface area trough conducting the heat to the fins (large surface). When your temperature diference becomes lower, heat doesn't exchange as efficient, as seen by lower heat vent in the caustic map.

[BigNothingMonsterMan]

considering basically no MW game has followed the heat sinks by the TT completely i think it would be foolish to believe this game will.

If you don't understand how environments could effect things try playing on one of the desert maps in mw4, or the volcano or moon in MWLL

[Elkarlo]

@ Keylan Carlyle (Whose name will get be changed i guess)

The Developers already said that the effectiveness of Heatsinks will be depending on the Surrounding Temprature.
( Was said during the Frozen City Video)
So i guess we will simply have heavy Heat Problems in a Desert Szenario, which means First strike stays same and we will battle for the Waterhole...
When they have something build in to increase Heatsink effectivness in Cold Enviroment, it is very easy to decrease it in hot.

[silentD11]

Viper69, on 23 July 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Im happy it does make sense to you. Im still trying to wrap my head around why an energy weapon that would produce the same heat as a ballistic weapon would dissipate its heat faster than the energy weapon generated heat. That is where my confusion lies. Maybe i am mis interpreting something, help me out if i am.

Energy weapons have always generated more heat than ballistic weapons in mechwarrior and since they often sustain fire/beam/whatever they often generate heat longer than a ballistic weapon which simply throws out one shell. On the other hand energy weapons do not have to worry about ammunition or projectile speeds and aiming.

It's a trade off you have to make.