32 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

What micros need is to be unlinked from the small/medium group, so that if you should fire 8 micros with 4 mediums...you don't blow yourself up.

[The6thMessenger]

Make Micro-Pulse-Lasers as MGs with heat but no ammo consumption.

[Troa Barton]

I am a firm believer of with added risk should come added reward.
This is something PGI has always been bad at implementing, It's why we have the laser gauss meta Instead of a brawling meta.
There should be no ghost heat for micro lasers. +1

[Khobai]

Dee Eight, on 27 January 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

What micros need is to be unlinked from the small/medium group, so that if you should fire 8 micros with 4 mediums...you don't blow yourself up.

no they should definitely be linked with the small/medium group to limit laser alphas

but micros themselves should not have ghost heat

The6thMessenger, on 27 January 2018 - 03:45 PM, said:

Make Micro-Pulse-Lasers as MGs with heat but no ammo consumption.

thats a straight nerf to micro pulse lasers

because their damage would be spread out instead of concentrated into a single short beam duration

the last thing they need is a nerf like that

what they need is no ghost heat and better range because 90m range is crap. they need at least 120m range.

Edited by Khobai, 27 January 2018 - 03:54 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 27 January 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

thats a straight nerf to micro pulse lasers

because their damage would be spread out instead of concentrated into a single short beam duration

the last thing they need is a nerf like that

what they need is no ghost heat and better range because 90m range is crap. they need at least 120m range.

Or you know, just increase the damage/tick. I want my laser-piranha MG god damn it.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 27 January 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

Consider the DPS though. 6xCERML has DPS of 7.32. 10xERMicros have DPS of 8. I do not think more than 10 GH limit is needed for micro lasers.

Why consider DPS when talking about ghost heat? Its irrelevant. If you're going for DPS you could just sit there firing in groups or chainfiring or whatever and avoiding ghost heat entirely.

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 27 January 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

Why consider DPS when talking about ghost heat? Its irrelevant. If you're going for DPS you could just sit there firing in groups or chainfiring or whatever and avoiding ghost heat entirely.

Right, but group chainfiring will still negatively affect DPS compared to alphas within GH limit.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 27 January 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

Right, but group chainfiring will still negatively affect DPS compared to alphas within GH limit.

It might negatively affect the precision, though not the DPS unless the ghost heat limit is extremely small compared to the cooldown of the gun.

Like right now ERMLs have a rather long recycle period of 5.75 seconds, and ghost heat timer is 0.5 seconds, so you get to fire 11 groups of 6 in that time without touching ghost heat not counting the first one. So unless you have over 72 CERML on your mech your DPS will not be lowered by ghost heat.

For CERmL it would be a 3 second recycle time, so 6 groups of 8 in that time, so you'd need 56 of them to have your DPS lowered by ghost heat.

So yeah ghost heat is entirely irrelevant to a discussion on DPS when it comes to lasers.

[JadePanther]

clan ghost heat linkages are such a clusterfluck right now.. if it gets any worse shooting more than 3 of anything will cause the mech to implode into a puddle of goo instantanously. They really need to sit down and get their linkages straightned out so you dont have to spend 5-10 minutes in the heat of combat consulting a chart, bar graph, and a scatter plot just to figure out if your mech makes itself go boom before the other guy does..

[Battlemaster56]

I find the GH on clan lasers a pain to deal with, especially on the PIR energy variants it completely shafts them, and accidentally firing your second group is a death sentence even if you override you just blow up next second because GH limit for micros on a 8 and should be at a 10, atleast they be bearable if PGI decides to keep them linked.

But personally I would rather have them remove the link between micros and other lasers so they can be use as a nice side arm weapon.

[Fleeb the Mad]

You might have to contend with the fact that micro lasers were thrown into the civil war tech update mostly as a concession to make the update look a little less lopsided.

I don't think they're supposed to be particularly good. I mean, we are looking at a 0.25 ton weapon. What are we expecting here?

I wouldn't increase the GH limit for the sake of the couple machines that can actually have that many hardpoints. It still makes them worthless on anything other than the gimmick builds and is actually the inverse of the reviled logic of nerfing weapons because of boating on specific mechs. Those weapons are still pointless everywhere else. You make the weapon better so it's got more uses outside of boating 10 of them and live with pulling the trigger twice.

[Battlemaster56]

1) It doesn't matter if they weapons were throw in to make it look less lopsided, because when the announcement came some Clanners complain the lack of other Civil war tech, but it was short lived.

2) Their .25ton option for some clan mechs that don't have a decent amount of tonnage to use alot of .50 ton lasers or 1 ton lasers without hurting themselves with lack of said tonnage to counteract the heat from clan er/pulse/heavy lasers.

2b) What one expect is not a weapon system completely gimped because some contrived reason of such a weapon be gated by a mere gh of 8 and linked with small and medium class lasers to gated even farther.

3) Not increase the GH of micro's because a niche build on certain mechs is bad, sorry but no micros have no reason to be hold down because they serve a niche. And mg's are pretty pointless outside of a few niched builds and they been improve around the civil update, why not micro's how do you buff laser mg's if you can't even fire 8 without the fear of being a ticking time bomb when you shut down, explain because that alone is reason alon is holding the PIR 2 and 3 by the throat they can't do energy builds without the fear of insta dying after shutdown.

3b) I suggest bumping the GH because of said reason it helps out the two struggling variants plus it gives micros breathing room when being used, despite being niche, it shouldn't being ignored for 4 years straight til they decide to buff or rework in some manner.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Then I suppose I will be more straightforward

Battlemaster56, on 28 January 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

1) It doesn't matter if they weapons were throw in to make it look less lopsided, because when the announcement came some Clanners complain the lack of other Civil war tech, but it was short lived.

Yes, it does actually. It serves no clear purpose other than 'tiny laser' with the absolute minimum of fitting requirements. We're not short on options for short range DPS. I believe that's the small pulse laser's job. There was no missing role for it to fit into. It's only feature is that it's even smaller than a small laser, hence there's not much attention being paid to the fact it's not in constant use.

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2) Their .25ton option for some clan mechs that don't have a decent amount of tonnage to use alot of .50 ton lasers or 1 ton lasers without hurting themselves with lack of said tonnage to counteract the heat from clan er/pulse/heavy lasers.

I'm sorry, but lack of tonnage is a fairly universal problem for lights. The bigger question I would pose is how many lights actually have the ability to use enough to trigger ghost heat, without having the tonnage to just use small lasers anyhow? I believe that number is two. A GH limit change doesn't suddenly make it more useful for other clan mechs.

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2b) What one expect is not a weapon system completely gimped because some contrived reason of such a weapon be gated by a mere gh of 8 and linked with small and medium class lasers to gated even farther.

Ghost heat's arbitrary limits apply to every weapon system, this one included. It's not like every other kind of laser isn't linked together. There is no reason this one should get a special exception. The point is it's a dinky tiny laser. You get four of them for the tonnage cost of the supposed Clan short-range DPS option. It could be they're just not supposed to be great.

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3) Not increase the GH of micro's because a niche build on certain mechs is bad, sorry but no micros have no reason to be hold down because they serve a niche. And mg's are pretty pointless outside of a few niched builds and they been improve around the civil update, why not micro's how do you buff laser mg's if you can't even fire 8 without the fear of being a ticking time bomb when you shut down, explain because that alone is reason alon is holding the PIR 2 and 3 by the throat they can't do energy builds without the fear of insta dying after shutdown.

Reason's pretty simple. If those variants suck, you can buff them. If the micro laser sucks on its own merits, you can make them them better too.Then you don't need ghost heat limit changes and it might see more use on other mechs that don't have a dozen energy hardpoints.

Balancing weapons around gimmick builds is bad. It's in fact the worst way to do any sort of balance, because you then make the weapons worse or unusable on mechs that aren't specifically optimized for it and you also make it difficult to tell if the chassis in question actually has any other viable alternatives.

You're not getting any sympathy from me for the sake of having to click the trigger a second time. This is hardly the only scenario with Clan mechs being limited by ghost heat on laser volleys.

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3b) I suggest bumping the GH because of said reason it helps out the two struggling variants plus it gives micros breathing room when being used, despite being niche, it shouldn't being ignored for 4 years straight til they decide to buff or rework in some manner.

I haven't seen any forum pleas lately for the ghost heat on IS medium lasers to go up to 8 so the Hunchie 4P can fire its canon 8 medium laser volley in one trigger pull. How about Novas? Mr. Gargles?. All I see at the foundation of all this is a complaint that a clan mech with a crapton of energy hardpoints can't fire the maximum number of lasers it can carry in one volley. It's not alone. It's just going to have to deal with it like every other Clan mech that can boat lasers.