27 replies to this topic

[ShotgunWillie]

As a Veteran Founder, I feel kind of stupid asking these questions, but I took a long hiatus shortly after the Project Phoenix mechs were released and just came back toward the end of December 2017 to a lot of new features and mechs being in the game. On to the stupid questions:

1) What's with the LRM hate in FP? After having done some Faction Play, I get why there might be some distaste for LRM boats (I don't take my old Catapult or Stalker LRM boat builds to FP). But rolling in with a Thunderbolt that has an LRM 15 and a couple of tons of ammo as a part of its arsenal shouldn't draw the ire that it seems to.

2) If I max out reputation/loyalty with one faction, is there a compelling reason to not break loyalty with that faction and switch to another (after the 7 day penalty period) to pursue loyalty with another faction for the rewards (mech bay, c-bills, etc.) that each of the other factions awards on achieving the various tiers of loyalty with them?

3) Multipart: What's with the dropship you can get from a certain tier of loyalty? I haven't gotten that far yet, but what can one do with it? Can you get multiple drop ships (see above question about switching loyalties) and if so, what could one do with it? Could you sell multiples of drop ships? I've seen people mention customizing dropships. To what end?

4) I'm not an amazing player, but I feel like I do (and have always done) better in Medium mechs, and I certainly have more fun in them. Despite that, my drop deck has an Assault and a Heavy that I drop before I go to the two Mediums in it. Should my drop deck have as much tonnage as possible, or should it have mechs I am moderately competent in and enjoy playing as long as I'm within the tonnage limit?

Thanks in advance!

Edited by ShotgunWillie, 22 January 2018 - 05:29 PM.

[Brizna]

1; LRMs are a very situational weapon against which most of the time there is an easy to find hard counter to them so dying to them is an embarrassment, to add to that because of all the noise and annoyance they cause while you are hit by them they are a very annoying way to die, so people tend to remember those times vividly and with hatred, still tbh most people don't die to LRM fire all that often and that hatred should be place on laser vomit which probably causes like 70% of the deaths in any given MOW day.

2: You are correct, that said maxing out a rep bar is a very serious time commitment. When you leave a faction you are loyal to you lose rep points but not any rank previously achieved and its associated rewards, if you ever come back to it you will have to regain the lost rep point before you can progress further.

3: It is a cockpit item, you put it there and it looks good (arguably)

4: For most players yes, maxing out weight is preferable but there are certain individuals who do so much better in a certain type of mech that it isn't the case for them, that said and since you admit to be relatively inexperienced that is unlikely to be your case. Alternatively you can move to 4 agile heavies and find while removing the assaults and find a compromise between your sense of comfort and statistical optimization until you get a better feeling of the game,

[Narcissus79]

The real answer is unless you are playing in a PUG drop, LRM fire is virutally useless in most situations. A well organised unit will approach to hard and fast for LRM fire to be effective - so if you are the odd man out in a drop, (ie. a pug fill-in a mostly organised unit drop) and you pack LRM's - you are an ineffective member of a 12 man team.

As far as organising a decent drop deck - it depends on your unit (if you have one) and what they have in place. Many units have their own drop build specs. Many go for a fairly even drop deck (eg. 3 heavies and 1 light med), while some go a front loaded approach (assault, heavy, med, light med).

Biggest piece of advice I could give is find a unit to join, and get playing in a tight nit group. You will enjoy FP more, and get far more games. Get on to Teamspeak, and jump on the Comstar channel, find some of the friendlier units to chat with, such as RasselhaguexDominion, Browncoats, Mercstar, Evil and make some friends.

[IceSkraven]

Thanks for asking these questions as I find myself in the same boat as you.

[Koniving]

1) stupid people.
2) no.
3) don't know if that is drop deck or drop ship. If dropship it is a cockpit item.

Ideally waste no more than 10 tons. 20 at most. So 1 50 2 55 and 100?

Good luck.

[Horseman]

ShotgunWillie, on 22 January 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

1) What's with the LRM hate in FP? After having done some Faction Play, I get why there might be some distaste for LRM boats (I don't take my old Catapult or Stalker LRM boat builds to FP). But rolling in with a Thunderbolt that has an LRM 15 and a couple of tons of ammo as a part of its arsenal shouldn't draw the ire that it seems to.

Ineffectiveness. In some maps/modes it can be helpful (eg on Polar Highlands), but usually the stigma is associated with players who don't just boat LRMs but are also extremely ineffective with them.

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2) If I max out reputation/loyalty with one faction, is there a compelling reason to not break loyalty with that faction and switch to another (after the 7 day penalty period) to pursue loyalty with another faction for the rewards (mech bay, c-bills, etc.) that each of the other factions awards on achieving the various tiers of loyalty with them?

You can. In fact farming out the low tiers of faction loyalty that way is something commonly advised to players who are still getting their bearings on the game.
However, you're unlikely to max out loyalty in one faction any time soon unless you're no-lifing the game hard.

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3) Multipart: What's with the dropship you can get from a certain tier of loyalty? I haven't gotten that far yet, but what can one do with it? Can you get multiple drop ships (see above question about switching loyalties) and if so, what could one do with it? Could you sell multiples of drop ships?

It's a cockpit item that serves no in-game purpose other than look nice.

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I've seen people mention customizing dropships. To what end?

It's possible the post was referring to drop decks.

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4) I'm not an amazing player, but I feel like I do (and have always done) better in Medium mechs, and I certainly have more fun in them. Despite that, my drop deck has an Assault and a Heavy that I drop before I go to the two Mediums in it. Should my drop deck have as much tonnage as possible, or should it have mechs I am moderately competent in and enjoy playing as long as I'm within the tonnage limit?

Strike a balance between both. Try not to take any mechs that you don't regularly score 400+ damage with in QP.

[The Basilisk]

ShotgunWillie, on 22 January 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

As a Veteran Founder, I feel kind of stupid asking these questions, but I took a long hiatus shortly after the Project Phoenix mechs were released and just came back toward the end of December 2017 to a lot of new features and mechs being in the game. On to the stupid questions:

1) What's with the LRM hate in FP? After having done some Faction Play, I get why there might be some distaste for LRM boats (I don't take my old Catapult or Stalker LRM boat builds to FP). But rolling in with a Thunderbolt that has an LRM 15 and a couple of tons of ammo as a part of its arsenal shouldn't draw the ire that it seems to.

2) If I max out reputation/loyalty with one faction, is there a compelling reason to not break loyalty with that faction and switch to another (after the 7 day penalty period) to pursue loyalty with another faction for the rewards (mech bay, c-bills, etc.) that each of the other factions awards on achieving the various tiers of loyalty with them?

3) Multipart: What's with the dropship you can get from a certain tier of loyalty? I haven't gotten that far yet, but what can one do with it? Can you get multiple drop ships (see above question about switching loyalties) and if so, what could one do with it? Could you sell multiples of drop ships? I've seen people mention customizing dropships. To what end?

4) I'm not an amazing player, but I feel like I do (and have always done) better in Medium mechs, and I certainly have more fun in them. Despite that, my drop deck has an Assault and a Heavy that I drop before I go to the two Mediums in it. Should my drop deck have as much tonnage as possible, or should it have mechs I am moderately competent in and enjoy playing as long as I'm within the tonnage limit?

Thanks in advance!

1) It is a bit more than just a matter of taste but a number of Issues that root in the basic functionality of LRMs and the game play behavior that it incites in players that start using LRMs early instead of starting of with mobile brawling or mobile fire support platforms.
To make the long story short:
-- Technologie wise LRMs are too easily countered and therefore rely too much on stupid behavior of your enemy, waste too much tonnage into default fail shot ammunition and are generaly too inefficient to keep up with other weapon systems. So in fact it takes a lot more skill and oversight to use LRMs propperly than most other weapons...also the possibility of total failure to do so is much higher.
-- Playstyle wise LRM users in general tend to avoid enemy exposure and are therefore lost hitpoints from the start for their team. Further the bloated damage numbers LRMs often produce lead to a wrong feeling of "doing good"...well you aren't divide by 3 for 5 and 10 rated launchers and by 4,5 or 5 for the 15 and 20 series launcher and you get the "usefull" damage you did. Remember that LRMs are not damagedealer weapons but rather area denial and support weapons to soften up enemys to prime them for concentrated frontloded fire.

2) Dono never reached max at any faction.

3) Its just a cockpit item....

4) remember tonnage == hitpoints so you may have to adapt your playstyle to the requirements of the FP setting.
That beeing said you should be able to aquire number of fast heavy mechs that play more like mediums like Quickdraw or the Roughneck.
Warhammers and Marauders are also still decent mechs that give you a wide spectrum from "more firepower" to "more mobility". 2xMarauders and 2x 55 tonn mechs of your choice should fit the bill, right?
Also remember that you have two dropdecks free from the start. So just build a cooler and a warmer deck or a leveled out deck with averange tonnage and pretty similar mechs.....you get the idea ?

But generaly there are a number of mechs that tend to perform better in FP than in QP as well as some mechs that are absolutely the best for certain tasks.

Edited by The Basilisk, 23 January 2018 - 02:52 AM.

[Leone]

ShotgunWillie, on 22 January 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

1) What's with the LRM hate in FP? After having done some Faction Play, I get why there might be some distaste for LRM boats (I don't take my old Catapult or Stalker LRM boat builds to FP). But rolling in with a Thunderbolt that has an LRM 15 and a couple of tons of ammo as a part of its arsenal shouldn't draw the ire that it seems to.

My response is usually, "When you can keep your mech in front of me, I'll consider your suggestions." Since my missile mechs are oft at the fore front of any engagement, and those who complain are more often n' not hiding behind me. That said, the reason most prefer direct fire weaponry is the travel time. if you're tromping about with a murder ball, by the time you've locked and your missile are away, it'll often be too late, and any mech in the open'll've been torn apart by concentrated direct fire afore your lrms hit.

ShotgunWillie, on 22 January 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

2) If I max out reputation/loyalty with one faction, is there a compelling reason to not break loyalty with that faction and switch to another (after the 7 day penalty period) to pursue loyalty with another faction for the rewards (mech bay, c-bills, etc.) that each of the other factions awards on achieving the various tiers of loyalty with them?

Yes, if you're in a unit, an you wanna wait for more unit mates to hit twenty. If'n you're solo, then no, sadly, there's no reason not to bail.

ShotgunWillie, on 22 January 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

3) Multipart: What's with the dropship you can get from a certain tier of loyalty? I haven't gotten that far yet, but what can one do with it? Can you get multiple drop ships (see above question about switching loyalties) and if so, what could one do with it? Could you sell multiples of drop ships? I've seen people mention customizing dropships. To what end?

That would be awesome. And yeah, I've multipule little dropship cockpit items.

ShotgunWillie, on 22 January 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

4) I'm not an amazing player, but I feel like I do (and have always done) better in Medium mechs, and I certainly have more fun in them. Despite that, my drop deck has an Assault and a Heavy that I drop before I go to the two Mediums in it. Should my drop deck have as much tonnage as possible, or should it have mechs I am moderately competent in and enjoy playing as long as I'm within the tonnage limit?

Okay, if'n you've ever read my CW Primer you'll notice a tendancy to start heavy and drop smaller an smaller mechs. Now, I've also a drop showcasing the nova, cuz someone'd asked, and I love that machine, so I went an captured my next match. Early on, I could've done alot better with a heavier mech, (and yes, had I not brought my lrm nova, cuz the enemy had many an ams.)

If you're good in mediums, then awesome! I remember running a 'Goyle and three novas for plenty a match, but that only leaves 10 tonnes to spare. All novas left 40 tonnes, and that match, I felt it. I'd work on keeping with the heavy and assault, and then the mediums, but work on getting better with said heavy an assault. Much as I advocate for piloting mechs you're good at, it's important to share armour and mediums just don't have much armour to share, especially in the first few waves when the opfor's usually dropping with higher damaging heftier mechs.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 23 January 2018 - 09:07 AM.

[Damnedtroll]

For the question 1 :

LRM are good harassing weapon and can be useful in some situation but the time for locking mean that you or a teamate will receive 4 gauss and 8 erlarges in the face to send a volley that will do far less damage or none... so it's just a bad trading.

LRM boating with only lrm and 12 tons of ammo is just a waste of tonnage. If you staying behind, it mean that your team have 11 mech against 12 and it means defeat.

Pace of fight in FP mean that most of your team will be in the area of your lrm rain. Friendly fire that shake your mech and make you die because of the enemy enjoying melting headless ball of explosion that see nothing is a bad thing.

For the question 4 : You can use agile and fast Heavies, some are agile like medium, not quite sturdy like fatter heavies but positioning is quite good and easy with them. But in FP weight mean armor, and the more armor you can share the better it is. But saying that... i'm doing a lot more with my heavies than with my assault in FP.

Edited by Damnedtroll, 23 January 2018 - 09:54 AM.

[ShotgunWillie]

There's a lot of consistency in the answers, and that helps a lot. Let me sum up and make sure I understand:


1) It sounds like LRMs are not inherently bad, but players who boat them usually are, and they hurt their team by not getting into the mix, and that's why there's so much hatred for them in FP. I've seen this in QP, too, so that makes perfect sense. Having a single LRM15 and one or two tons of ammo is not necessarily hurting anything, but I might be better served changing that out for MRMs or SRMs in the long term.

2) Faction farming can be a thing, but it takes time and patience/stubbornness, and there is, overall, no compelling reason to stick with a particular faction.

3) The dropship you can get from faction loyalty is not the same dropship people are talking about customizing (probably meaning their drop deck).

4) Battlemaster (85), Thunderbolt (65), Griffin (55), and Wolverine(55) for a total of 260 tons is probably fine. I just need to git gud.

Sound about right?

Thanks for the answers, everybody!

[justcallme A S H]

1. Because LRMs have to play in a direct fire / higher skill setting. Anyone that says otherwise is generally a below average player with the below average stats and they are just unwilling to accept either of it or LRMs are bad. So - don't ever use them. Don't buy into the "but I am good with them" argument, it's rubbish. For a new starter, do not use, ever.

2. No. Max and break, it is what everyone else does.

3. It's a cockpit item. IF you are talking about a drop deck, which you purchase in game for MC... That just means you get a 3rd or 4th, which TBH, are not necessary at all. You have 60 seconds to change mechs before a drop.

4. Always aim to use ALL tonnage. There is no way you are doing as good in a Med when you are facing 12 Assault/Heavy mechs on the other side first wave. It's simply improbable unless you are top level good. If you are not breaking 1,000dmg every game, you need to improve game play.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 January 2018 - 07:54 PM.

[Horseman]

ShotgunWillie, on 23 January 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

1) It sounds like LRMs are not inherently bad, but players who boat them usually are, and they hurt their team by not getting into the mix, and that's why there's so much hatred for them in FP. I've seen this in QP, too, so that makes perfect sense. Having a single LRM15 and one or two tons of ammo is not necessarily hurting anything, but I might be better served changing that out for MRMs or SRMs in the long term.

Essentially yes. There are exceptions (matches on Polar Highlands or Grim Plexus, mostly) where drop callers in organized groups might actually want some LRM mechs on the team, but they'll let you know when that's the case.

[The Basilisk]

ShotgunWillie, on 23 January 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

[...]
4) Battlemaster (85), Thunderbolt (65), Griffin (55), and Wolverine(55) for a total of 260 tons is probably fine. I just need to git gud.
[...]

While Griffin and Wolverine are rarely seen these days outside from scouting, this deck does not seem too bad...I've seen worse.
While Battlemaster and Thunderbolt are perfectly fine I would suggest switching the Mediums for an other heavy and a lowrange medium or a light.
Marauder and Wolfhound for example or maybe a Warhammer and an Assassin.

Also info about loadout and variant of your mechs could be interesting.

Edited by The Basilisk, 24 January 2018 - 01:52 AM.

[ShotgunWillie]

The Basilisk, on 24 January 2018 - 01:51 AM, said:

Also info about loadout and variant of your mechs could be interesting.

They are all the Project Phoenix variant that has the loyalty point boost and other than the 1 ton of LRM ammo on the Thunderbolt, I don't remember how much ammo any of them carry. They're all running double heat sinks. I'm not sure what combination of Endosteel and FF or Light FF any of them are running off the top of my head.

Can't crank the game and confirm at the moment, but from memory:

Battlemaster is RAC5, ER LL, 6x ML (might be ER, but I think they're standard), and a standard engine, but I don't remember which. Goes 64.8 kph.

Thunderbolt is RAC5, LL (might be ER, don't remember), 3x ML (also might be ER, but I don't think so), 1x LRM15 with 1 ton of ammo, goes 64.8 KPH.

Wolverine is RAC5 (can you tell I like RAC5s?), 1x ML, 2x SRM4, 1x SRM2 (on the fence about changing to MRMs), it has Jump Jets, and it goes 81 kph.

Griffin is 3x MPL, 2x MRM10, also has JJs and goes 81 kph.

Not that I can't ultimately buy more mechs, but right now, here's what I have:

For Assaults, I have some Stalkers, a couple of Atlases (Atlai?), a couple of other Battlemasters (I bought the big Project Phoenix and Saber Reinforcement packs way back in the day), and a King Crab.

I have a Cataphract (forget which variant, but heavy on ballistic hardpoints), a Catapult (currently set up as an LRM boat from forever ago, would convert it to MRMs if I took it to FP), and 3 Thunderbolts for heavies.

I have 3x Cicadas, Hunchbacks, Griffins, Shadowhawks, and Wolverines, and 1 Centurion for Mediums.

For lights, I have 3 Locusts (Project Phoenix stuff), and 2 Ravens.

I'd be doing a disservice to the team if I took the Cicadas or any of the lights. I'm just not squirrely enough to play them well. I still take them into QP to goof off and get XP, but I wouldn't hinder an FP team with them.

Edit: Fixing formatting, I hope.

Edited by ShotgunWillie, 24 January 2018 - 07:59 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

You want some honest feedback about the builds?

[Horseman]

justcallme A S H, on 24 January 2018 - 10:15 PM, said:

You want some honest feedback about the builds?

I'm guessing it's along the same lines as mine, eseentially "you're trying to use THAT in FP?"? All over the map, all undergunned.

ShotgunWillie, on 24 January 2018 - 07:57 PM, said:

Not that I can't ultimately buy more mechs, but right now, here's what I have:

Your profile page has a list of all mechs you own: https://mwomercs.com/profile
Just copy the contents of the window under "Current Mech", paste them into Notepad and then copy-paste from there to the forums.

Edited by Horseman, 25 January 2018 - 12:39 AM.

[The Basilisk]

justcallme A S H, on 24 January 2018 - 10:15 PM, said:

You want some honest feedback about the builds?

Honest but not harsh is always appreciated Ash ^^

But well...yes those builds are....quite uniquely and individualistic since they do not take the strongpoints of the respective chassis into account.

So according to your loadout and the possibilitys the BMaster chassis do offer you got either an BLR-1G or 3M.
If the 3M just use the same soadout as given for the 1G......but still the 2C is the best BMaster for FP.

Thunderbolt would be the 5S or 9S ... both not the strongest members of their family.

Wolverine..6R if I'm right..well problem of the Wolverine in FP is that he can not realy boat anything. While you are ok with it in scout by using SRMs and a large AC for max frontload you are just too vulnerable and can't deliver a big enough alpha to be worth your weight.
Since most FP matches are about getting enemy mechs singled out and focused down as fast as possible you don't do enough dmg for the short time you will live in combat with that WVR 6Rs diverse weapons layout.
So the only way you will ever be able to carry your weight with that WVR is to stay alive long enough to have time to deliver your 400+dmg per mech. (350-400 should be your minimum target per mech and if you use less mechs do more dmg per mech) I've included 5JJ into your mech and installed 3 MRM10 with some ammo. Use those to move jump fir MRMs and use as much vertical cover as possible while constantly firing.

Griffin...huh dono what chassis this could be but mebe the 1S or the 1N?
While the strat for WVR is more poke and gun the strat for GRF will be run and gun.
Never the less both mechs are pretty unsuitable for invasion maps even if they may work to some extent on skirmish or other game modes.
But basicaly it is the same prob as with the wvr. You are too vulnerable to be able to deliver the needed dmg and also take the required ammount of punishment to not beeing lost hitpoints for your team.

Anyway you get the idea. Max alpha or vomit is the best you can do on invasion maps. Or builds with serious frontload like heavy SRM/large AC builds to just storm in and nail em down.
For everything else you require team coordination you won't have in PuG FP Groups.

So...I hate to conform to ash...this isn't realy an ideal FP drop deck. Those mechs are below suboptimal...even in singleplayer QP.

Edited by The Basilisk, 25 January 2018 - 02:38 AM.

[Leone]

Honestly I prefer to run my Battlemasters and Thunderbolts more along this line. But then mine is meant for brawling, and isn't expected to survive past the first wave. It's designed to smash through the first few mechs it meets, maybe damage the second wave, and then I get something fresh. There're various ways to build.

That said, I really cannot love single rac builds. The weapon just doesn't bring the damage. Two are okay for hit an fade burst damage, but one just feels like a waste. If you can swap from a single Rotary five to dual ac 5s I'd suggest giving it a try.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 25 January 2018 - 10:40 AM.

[ShotgunWillie]

justcallme A S H, on 24 January 2018 - 10:15 PM, said:

You want some honest feedback about the builds?

Yes, although I'm guessing it will be "They're crap, change them."

Here are the specifics of what I'm actually running right now:

BLR-1G

TDR-5S

GRF-1N

WVR-6R

I chose these chassis because A) they all get a 10% LP boost, 2) I like the way they play overall, and C) They get me 260/265 tons in my drop deck.

If I can stick with them because of the LP boost, that would be shiny.

Thanks to Horseman's advice, here's a list of the chassis I own. Please do not ask for the full load outs for every single one.

Light
LCT-1VP
LCT-3M
LCT-3S
RVN-3L
RVN-4X

Medium
CDA-3C
CDA-3M
CDA-X5
CN9-AH
GRF-1NP
GRF-1S
GRF-3M
HBK-4G
HBK-4P
HBK-4SP
HBK-IIC-B
HBK-IICC
SHD-2D2
SHD-2HP
SHD-5M
WVR-6K
WVR-6RP
WVR-7K

Heavy
CPLT-C1
CTF-4X
TDR-5SP
TDR-5SS
TDR-9SE

Assault
AS7-D-DC
AS7-S
BLR-1D
BLR-1GP
BLR-1S
KGC-000L
STK-3H
STK-5M
STK-5S

[justcallme A S H]

ShotgunWillie, on 25 January 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

Spoiler

Yes, although I'm guessing it will be "They're crap, change them."

Here are the specifics of what I'm actually running right now:

BLR-1G

TDR-5S

GRF-1N

WVR-6R

I chose these chassis because A) they all get a 10% LP boost, 2) I like the way they play overall, and C) They get me 260/265 tons in my drop deck.

If I can stick with them because of the LP boost, that would be shiny.

Thanks to Horseman's advice, here's a list of the chassis I own. Please do not ask for the full load outs for every single one.

Light
LCT-1VP
LCT-3M
LCT-3S
RVN-3L
RVN-4X

Medium
CDA-3C
CDA-3M
CDA-X5
CN9-AH
GRF-1NP
GRF-1S
GRF-3M
HBK-4G
HBK-4P
HBK-4SP
HBK-IIC-B
HBK-IICC
SHD-2D2
SHD-2HP
SHD-5M
WVR-6K
WVR-6RP
WVR-7K

Heavy
CPLT-C1
CTF-4X
TDR-5SP
TDR-5SS
TDR-9SE

Assault
AS7-D-DC
AS7-S
BLR-1D
BLR-1GP
BLR-1S
KGC-000L
STK-3H
STK-5M
STK-5S

Ok so RACs. Never. Take them off every mech you have, literally that is where that discussion begins and ends because they are just junk weapons as they do not focus and spread.

BLR-1G - You put the strongest weapon (ERL) in the arm and the weakest in the torso (ML).
BLR-1G is good at one thing. 6/5ERL. That is it's role.

Otherwise look at: http://metamechs.com/

The builds there are all relevant. Swap out LPL for Large Lasers and then use LFE. That is about the only difference.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 26 January 2018 - 12:57 PM.