53 replies to this topic

[Fluffinator]

Maybe it should be like the KDC-3 and have all it's quirks removed the Tuesday before it goes for sale for Cbills...oh yeah that is only a feature on every clan assault mech.

[Y E O N N E]

What are you on about, the KDK-3 was god-mode for a long time even after C-bill release.

[NRP]

Well I just went all in on the Fafnir, even though I didn't really want the hero.

[Troa Barton]

Crit reduction and armor quirks, ECM won't hide it, just like it doesn't hide the Atlas.

[El Bandito]

Fluffinator, on 28 January 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

Maybe it should be like the KDC-3 and have all it's quirks removed the Tuesday before it goes for sale for Cbills...oh yeah that is only a feature on every clan assault mech.

If you know better, then you would realize that even without a single quirk the KDK-3 was still the best Assault at the time. It was the CUAC10 nerf, Gauss GH nerf, and engine desync+mobility nerf that finally lowered the KDK-3.

[An Innocent Urbie]

30% CBILLS and EXP!! that is all I need for those regular FAFNIR!

[Koniving]

Way too many calls for defensive quirks. Those giant "Owl eyes" are supposed to be Heavy Gauss Barrels... the thing isn't amazingly armored or sporting crit reduction, visually, so why should it have them?

Instead its got two GIANT guns.

So I'm in the highly offensive quirked bonuses. So while not a glass cannon, definitely something with formidable firepower.

[El Bandito]

Koniving, on 29 January 2018 - 06:12 AM, said:

Way too many calls for defensive quirks. Those giant "Owl eyes" are supposed to be Heavy Gauss Barrels... the thing isn't amazingly armored or sporting crit reduction, visually, so why should it have them?

Instead its got two GIANT guns.

So I'm in the highly offensive quirked bonuses. So while not a glass cannon, definitely something with formidable firepower.

Those giant guns are what actual HGR should look like. It is nothing out of the ordinary. Too bad PGI's weapon scaling made HGR look like peashooters on any other mechs.

[Trenchbird]

El Bandito, on 29 January 2018 - 06:16 AM, said:

Those giant guns are what actual HGR should look like. It is nothing out of the ordinary. Too bad PGI's weapon scaling made HGR look like peashooters on any other mechs.

Peashooters? Not really. It's a fat Gauss with a similar sized hole, at least on the machines with support geometry. It's not an autocannon; It's a very dense projectile (Not big necessarily, just very dense) fired through a big magnet pack, so it doesn't have to have a huge barrel anyways.

Also, barrels big enough to fit a person are stupid and should be left in the early days of battletech, where artwork was... Typically cringe-inducing in retrospect.

Edited by Catten Hart, 29 January 2018 - 06:20 AM.

[Zeoraimer]

I wanted a Fanir too. Until I realised why I don't pilot other 100 ton mechs... I can do well in them, I just don't like the engine desync sluggish driving an oil tanker feeling...

If giant HGR barrels meant a giant slug that slaps other mechs around, physically moving from the spot they are standing on, now thats a different story...

[El Bandito]

Catten Hart, on 29 January 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

Peashooters? Not really. It's a fat Gauss with a similar sized hole, at least on the machines with support geometry. It's not an autocannon; It's a very dense projectile (Not big necessarily, just very dense) fired through a big magnet pack, so it doesn't have to have a huge barrel anyways.

Also, barrels big enough to fit a person are stupid and should be left in the early days of battletech, where artwork was... Typically cringe-inducing in retrospect.

Might as well give the Fafnir breast reduction then.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 January 2018 - 06:32 AM.

[Koniving]

El Bandito, on 29 January 2018 - 06:16 AM, said:

Those giant guns are what actual HGR should look like. It is nothing out of the ordinary. Too bad PGI's weapon scaling made HGR look like peashooters on any other mechs.

Indeed, and then compare the projectiles of autocannons in MWO, and it seems really inferior instead of the most powerful single shot projectile weapon (which it still is, but by 5 points, rather than 10 as compared to HPPC, Clan ER PPC and Gauss). The range wouldn't be so much of an issue if not for that.

(Then again, the size of the barrels isn't as extreme when you consider that most mechs are under 15 meters in Battletech, Fafnir included, as the tallest mech is the Executioner at 14.4, and thus Fafnir might actually be closer to 12 meters or less, as even the Dire Wolf is 12.3 meters.

(For reference MWO's Hunchback is 13.6 meters.)

[NRP]

Honestly, I feel like the Fafnir loadout will be powerful enough, so I would hope for some durability and mobility quirks.

I do like how PGI handled the Annihilator. It's slow but the torso rotation feels good and it's pretty durable. Hopefully the Fafnir gets something like that. Maybe more mobility than durability. Something like that.

[Verilligo]

Presuming this thing moves like a slug purely because it's 100 tons and extra thicc, I'd hope for some considerable quirks.

All variants: CT Structure: +10, LT/RT Armor: +30, LA/RA Armor: +10
FNR-5: HGR Shake: -100%, Laser Duration: -20%
FNR-5B: Energy Heat: -15%
FNR-6U: PPC Heat: -20%, PPC Velocity: +30%, Ballistic Range: +10%
FNR-5E: UAC Jam Chance: -30%, Missile Velocity: +10%
FNR-6R: LBX Spread: -25%, Missile Heat: -15%
FNR-WR: Missile Spread: -20%, Missile Velocity: +20%

They're strong quirks, yes, but they at least differentiate the chassis from others in the same bracket. Not really seeing them overpowering the mech, either, playing strictly to the quirks doesn't seem to cause any impossible to deal with combos.

Edited by Verilligo, 29 January 2018 - 07:28 AM.

[Angus McFife VI]

Koniving, on 29 January 2018 - 06:12 AM, said:

Way too many calls for defensive quirks. Those giant "Owl eyes" are supposed to be Heavy Gauss Barrels... the thing isn't amazingly armored or sporting crit reduction, visually, so why should it have them?

Instead its got two GIANT guns.

So I'm in the highly offensive quirked bonuses. So while not a glass cannon, definitely something with formidable firepower.

This isn't tabletop Koniving. This thing is as wide as a barn and mechs with better hitboxes and armor can already wield dual Hgauss (anni and cyclops). This mech needs incentive, I just hope it isn't too much or too little.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 29 January 2018 - 09:15 AM.

[Vyx]

Verilligo, on 29 January 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

Presuming this thing moves like a slug purely because it's 100 tons and extra thicc, I'd hope for some considerable quirks.

All variants: CT Structure: +10, LT/RT Armor: +30, LA/RA Armor: +10
FNR-5: HGR Shake: -100%, Laser Duration: -20%
FNR-5B: Energy Heat: -15%
FNR-6U: PPC Heat: -20%, PPC Velocity: +30%, Ballistic Range: +10%
FNR-5E: UAC Jam Chance: -30%, Missile Velocity: +10%
FNR-6R: LBX Spread: -25%, Missile Heat: -15%
FNR-WR: Missile Spread: -20%, Missile Velocity: +20%

They're strong quirks, yes, but they at least differentiate the chassis from others in the same bracket. Not really seeing them overpowering the mech, either, playing strictly to the quirks doesn't seem to cause any impossible to deal with combos.

IMO: Halve these values and it might be in a good place.

[Water Bear]

Fleeb the Mad, on 28 January 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

Looking at Heavy Gauss in terms of DPS is a mistake. First, heavy gauss kills using less damage than most weapons due to its high pinpoint damage. Second, front-loaded damage always skews actual comparisons of damaged exchanged.

Dual heavy gauss builds in particular are very efficient killing machines given they all tend to have excellent convergence. An instant 50 damage to one location is powerful. Given that a good shot will land successive hits with little to no spread, you can cripple or kill enemy mechs rather quickly. Given there's no spread, you will generally kill mechs more efficiently than with dakka or lasers.

It also has a rather notable intimidation factor that makes mechs hesitant to push into it. In trades that first hit tends to make enemy mechs rather gun shy, since most are going to be dangerously close to losing a component.

Hey, you might be right, but I don't see it that way. In a fight between assaults DPS is really all that matters. With 2x HGR you're so slow you can't really twist to spread damage. After a 2x HGR mech dumps its alpha, it just sits there face-tanking a higher DPS UAC boat's full rage. That never ends well for the HGR boat. Plus if the HGR does try to twist, it's super easy to predict when you need to twist yourself. Oh, you're facing me again? Gee, I wonder why.

Dont LRM me please, on 29 January 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

This isn't tabletop Koniving. This thing is as wide as a barn and mechs with better hitboxes and armor can already wield dual Hgauss (anni and cyclops). This mech needs incentive, I just hope it isn't too much or too little.

The Mauler can do it, too. But I don't, because I tried it and it's really, really bad.

Edited by Water Bear, 29 January 2018 - 09:47 AM.

[Koniving]

Dont LRM me please, on 29 January 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

This isn't tabletop Koniving. This thing is as wide as a barn and mechs with better hitboxes and armor can already wield dual Hgauss (anni and cyclops). This mech needs incentive, I just hope it isn't too much or too little.

And I've been playing mechs as wide as a barn for years.

Not everything needs to have more armor than a capital warship.
We don't even know what kind of hitboxes this will have, and generally ALL mechs with oblong bodies have had fantastic hitboxes due to the 60% damage reduction on damage transfer feature MWO has.

Run a Stalker for a while with a standard engine, and you'll have a rough idea of what running a Fafnir might be like. You should expect as much out of it when it rolls out. Or a Dire Wolf, given its similar size and lack of quirks.

They do quite well. No reason to think otherwise for this mech.

[Angus McFife VI]

Koniving, on 29 January 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

And I've been playing mechs as wide as a barn for years.

Not everything needs to have more armor than a capital warship.
We don't even know what kind of hitboxes this will have, and generally ALL mechs with oblong bodies have had fantastic hitboxes due to the 60% damage reduction on damage transfer feature MWO has.

Run a Stalker for a while with a standard engine, and you'll have a rough idea of what running a Fafnir might be like. You should expect as much out of it when it rolls out. Or a Dire Wolf, given its similar size and lack of quirks.

They do quite well. No reason to think otherwise for this mech.

DIREWOLF DOES WELL? NO, it doesn't. It's a giant box with no armor quirks. And no, the fafnir does not have a plane-nose long face like the stalker, it has big giant square shoulders, much worse than that of an Atlas, and the Atlas has shield arms going for it and armor quirks, I cannot fathom how terrible it will be for the Fafnir. Just look at this thing https://mwomercs.com/fafnir That's nothing, and I mean nothing like a Stalker's face. The CT is a big square in the center and to it's side are two wider side torsos.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 29 January 2018 - 10:08 AM.

[AzureRathalos]

Just to keep things interesting, I'd suggest agility and offense to be the priorities and maybe a touch of crit chance reduction. The Anni can and should keep its title as tankiest mech in the game.