41 replies to this topic

[AaronWolf]

Really seems like it should for certain mechs, like the KGC-000 and the Mad Dog Bandit variant.

Or get some quirk that drastically reduces AC20 heat...because stock variants that COME with those two weapons onboard get wrecked by it.

[Metus regem]

AaronWolf, on 04 May 2018 - 07:35 AM, said:

Really seems like it should for certain mechs, like the KGC-000 and the Mad Dog Bandit variant.

Or get some quirk that drastically reduces AC20 heat...because stock variants that COME with those two weapons onboard get wrecked by it.

It was something from when PGI thought 40 PPFLD was too much... funny that now with just two weapons you can get upto 50 PPFLD from IS weapons (HGR's)... But PGI rarely undoes a heavy handed nerf sadly.

[AaronWolf]

Metus regem, on 04 May 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

It was something from when PGI thought 40 PPFLD was too much... funny that now with just two weapons you can get upto 50 PPFLD from IS weapons (HGR's)... But PGI rarely undoes a heavy handed nerf sadly.

Makes me quite sad hearing that. Guess I will scuttle the Crab of mine and move to 2xUAC10s then.

[Nightbird]

I'm for removing GH from AC20s, but who knows what PGI is designing off of.

If running only 2AC20s, you can already alpha 3 times then sustain on single fire with 10 heat sinks. It's not a great build as with all other range limited builds.

[AaronWolf]

Considering a lot of maps are not 'short range' friendly for most heavier mechs without having good speed (Like a Linebacker), the AC20 is already at a disadvantage.

But you have a good point, NB. Still I feel 2xUAC10's are at best 1xAC20 at nearly double the range of effectiveness (Though you pay a lot in tonnage), whilst being a 2xAC20 when you double tap, just with the Gamblers Roll every time.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghost heat was a stupid Mechanic. I cringe whenever I think of the shear dumbness of the idea.

[AaronWolf]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 May 2018 - 08:40 AM, said:

Ghost heat was a stupid Mechanic. I cringe whenever I think of the shear dumbness of the idea.

Me and a couple others made our voices heard when that mechanic was implemented. Its been something we've all disliked since the getgo. Made builds that were fun; totally trash. It was a big bandaid fix that they just kept slapping on stuff in hopes it would fix bigger issues (such as Poptart problems with high alphas way back when).

But eh, its said and done, and its become part of this games core. Here's hoping they NEVER EVER even consider putting it in MW5Mercs.

Edited by AaronWolf, 04 May 2018 - 08:58 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

AaronWolf, on 04 May 2018 - 08:58 AM, said:

Me and a couple others made our voices heard when that mechanic was implemented. Its been something we've all disliked since the getgo. Made builds that were fun; totally trash. It was a big bandaid fix that they just kept slapping on stuff in hopes it would fix bigger issues (such as Poptart problems with high alphas way back when).

But eh, its said and done, and its become part of this games core. Here's hoping they NEVER EVER even consider putting it in MW5Mercs.

It Kinda made the King Crab gimpy. Making weapons work differently cause folks whine has always bugged me. I am not a top 100 player, but I was a dedicated one, until all the whining "missiles touched me" "PPCs ate my baby" "Gauss put my eye out" "WHY CAN'T I RESPAWN?" things that make MWO not be a BattleTech game.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I was just thinking this myself. I have one of my Fafnirs running around with Zero Heat Dual Heavy Gauss with no issues punching out 50 PPFLD but if I want to cut my damage by 20% and deal with the fairly high normal heat, I can't fire Dual AC/20s because of the extremely punishing Ghost Heat that comes along with it. When you think about it that way, it doesn't make a whole hell of alot of sense. I will even go as far as saying it doesn't make sense when using Dual UAC/20s. Sure you can double tap for some pretty hefty damage but with the amount of times one or both UACs will be jammed up each match, your probably doing less overall damage with them than with a standard AC or Gauss Rifle. Also I have many mechs that can hammer out 70-80 damage alphas and while it usually isn't PPFLD, it doesn't have to be since I am still going to manage to do 40-50 points of that 70-80 points of damage before the opponent twists or I drift my lasers off his CT or whatever.

And for the record, I never had an issue with Dual AC/20 Jagers and Catapults like other people had either. I just respected them a bit more engaged them appropriate to their danger level.

[AaronWolf]

Viktor Drake, on 04 May 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

I was just thinking this myself. I have one of my Fafnirs running around with Zero Heat Dual Heavy Gauss with no issues punching out 50 PPFLD but if I want to cut my damage by 20% and deal with the fairly high normal heat, I can't fire Dual AC/20s because of the extremely punishing Ghost Heat that comes along with it. When you think about it that way, it doesn't make a whole hell of alot of sense. I will even go as far as saying it doesn't make sense when using Dual UAC/20s. Sure you can double tap for some pretty hefty damage but with the amount of times one or both UACs will be jammed up each match, your probably doing less overall damage with them than with a standard AC or Gauss Rifle. Also I have many mechs that can hammer out 70-80 damage alphas and while it usually isn't PPFLD, it doesn't have to be since I am still going to manage to do 40-50 points of that 70-80 points of damage before the opponent twists or I drift my lasers off his CT or whatever.

And for the record, I never had an issue with Dual AC/20 Jagers and Catapults like other people had either. I just respected them a bit more engaged them appropriate to their danger level.

Personally, I always liked the dynamic of duking it out with the BoomPults/BoomJagers back in the day. I think the annoyance factor never outpaced the fun one for me.

Considering I was one of those people running around in a Raven back then and could be insta-oneshot by them, it was always heart racing during those moments of finding one.

[Metus regem]

AaronWolf, on 04 May 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Personally, I always liked the dynamic of duking it out with the BoomPults/BoomJagers back in the day. I think the annoyance factor never outpaced the fun one for me.

Considering I was one of those people running around in a Raven back then and could be insta-oneshot by them, it was always heart racing during those moments of finding one.

It is always interesting to see and hear the people the claim to be "top shelf" players, but seem to lack lateral thinking ability... nothing is truly rock, paper, scissors. Those BoomPults/jagers had a major flaw, range. They were glass canons that could be killed by an XL check.... same goes for the BoomRaven. Just like the DireStar or HexPPC Stalker, every highly specialized build has an Achilles Heel, one just has to spend the time looking for it, then figure out how to exploit that flaw.

Sadly, they usually just find it easier to cry for a nerf than actually do the work... hence we have junk mechanics like ghost heat.

[Palor]

I was hoping they would remove ghost heat from AC/20's with all the super high alphas from other systems with no ghost heat.

[MechaBattler]

But then why would anyone use LBX20s? It creates the nice niche of LBX20s not having ghost heat. Especially given that you have to run a standard engine to mount them.

If anything a higher velocity for AC20s would be nice for their general use.

Edited by MechaBattler, 04 May 2018 - 11:42 AM.

[AaronWolf]

Metus regem, on 04 May 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

It is always interesting to see and hear the people the claim to be "top shelf" players, but seem to lack lateral thinking ability... nothing is truly rock, paper, scissors. Those BoomPults/jagers had a major flaw, range. They were glass canons that could be killed by an XL check.... same goes for the BoomRaven. Just like the DireStar or HexPPC Stalker, every highly specialized build has an Achilles Heel, one just has to spend the time looking for it, then figure out how to exploit that flaw.

Sadly, they usually just find it easier to cry for a nerf than actually do the work... hence we have junk mechanics like ghost heat.

Oh this is very much agreed.

MechaBattler, on 04 May 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

But then why would anyone use LBX20s? It creates the nice niche of LBX20s not having ghost heat. Especially given that you have to run a standard engine to mount them.

Hmmmm. I think people would still run LBX's. But maybe you are right.

[FupDup]

I'd much rather have an individual AC/20 actually be worth using (i.e. more velocity, lower BASE heat) instead of using 28 tons of them as the minimum baseline. Plus I really don't think we need to keep creeping the power up further than it already has.

[Nema Nabojiv]

MechaBattler, on 04 May 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

But then why would anyone use LBX20s?

Cuz velocity of course. Why would anyone use LB20X when there is HGR, now that is a question.

[SmokedJag]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 May 2018 - 08:40 AM, said:

Ghost heat was a stupid Mechanic. I cringe whenever I think of the shear dumbness of the idea.

Well the alternative to having something reigning in massive targeted alpha strikes in a game where you can aim is a MW3-type killfest. Which gets downright unplayable.

Most of the weapons in BT - where the stats are almost directly imported from - were never intended to be aimable in normal situations. Without doubled armor a number of loadouts focused onto a component would blow a leg or side torso off instantly; with doubled armor it only takes two. Two alphas with a possible shutdown is a reasonable price to pay for a guaranteed kill.

So PGI has been in a never ending crusade to extend this. Locking Gauss to two. Breaking Clan UACs up into streams. Extending laser burn times so that a target has to be stationary or very close to get full burn on a component. Splashing Clan ERPPC so they aren't unlimited ammo Gauss. And yes, ghost heat.

All of this is annoying and frustrated or breaks canon builds. But the alternative is ugly.

Edited by SmokedJag, 04 May 2018 - 12:23 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Incidentally, AC/20 + 2 SNPPC is 26 heat for 26 tons. Dual AC/20s is 23.5 for 28 tons (plus the doubled demand for ammo, of course).

If you're a snibbity snab King Crab, looking onto the snubbies as torso guns and just using one arm for an AC/20 is a thought.

[AaronWolf]

Brain Cancer, on 04 May 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

Incidentally, AC/20 + 2 SNPPC is 26 heat for 26 tons. Dual AC/20s is 23.5 for 28 tons (plus the doubled demand for ammo, of course).

If you're a snibbity snab King Crab, looking onto the snubbies as torso guns and just using one arm for an AC/20 is a thought.

Did not think of that...thats a good idea. o,..,o Yessss. YESSSSS.

[Brain Cancer]

AaronWolf, on 04 May 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

Did not think of that...thats a good idea. o,..,o Yessss. YESSSSS.

It's more commonly done on smaller beasties like the Cataphract, but you can always put all the guns on one side this way and cut loose without the annoying convergence issues dual 20's get. You can even put a few MGs or a missile launcher on the other side if you want bit more firepower.

https://mwo.smurfy-n...d738e56d68aa396