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There Was A Time When You Didn't Have To Face Evil Or Kcom If You Didn't Want To


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#21 justcallme A S H

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 10:41 PM

View PostSunstruck, on 02 February 2018 - 06:28 AM, said:

Back when the inner sphere could actually fight against other inner sphere houses you could actually choose your battles. Since most of the merc units were usually clan it helped with matchmaking somewhat. The battles among loyalist units were more even and enjoyable, but I guess that will just be a distant memory.


Until the loyalists avoided fights and voted to attack dead factions. Not all was as good with the old system as many think.

And that isn't saying the new one is great either.

#22 Kwea

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 11:06 PM

View PostThe Basilisk, on 02 February 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:


Well that is exactly the kind of thinking attitude the OP is addressing.
He does NOT want to.
And ppl calling other ppl names because they deem them to be somehow of lower worth belong into some kind of enclosure to keep the rest of the ppl safe from them.

that's the most idiotic thing you've posted in a while, and that's saying something. If he doesn't want to ...fine. But whining about competition the mode designed for groups is pathetic.

There is a warning and everything when you enter the mode, for God's sake. It's A TEAM BASED MODE, so either learn to play as a team or enjoy QP. That's been dumbed down to favor pugs already.

Edited by Kwea, 03 February 2018 - 11:06 PM.


#23 Lyons De Flamand

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 11:11 PM

I do miss the strategic toplayer of that phase. Dropping hard on Liao planets because TCAF was leading groups attacking your planets etc.

#24 RaptorCWS

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:12 AM

would it make you feel better if we created new units every other week so you have no clue you are about to face us?

#25 Koniving

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 02:52 AM

You could just, you know, not play faction play. Sounds like that would work.

...Honestly other than the free gifts for ranking up, there's no actual point in playing the mode unless you're a big group as you'll never get the MC income for taking a planet.... and there's no actual gameplay to be had.

X planet with no fluff in MWO changed colors. Oh noes! O_O! We are doomed..
Your faction's been wiped out. ....nothing happens.
Factories, black markets, etc. etc. etc... none of it is here.

#26 Cato Zilks

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 04:06 AM

Wow, I am seeing a lot of assholery to what was not an asinine objection to our current iteration of FW. Yes dropping against the same good teams wears people down. Everybody here knows that. We have all been on teams, even good teams, when repeated drops and losses against some other good team causes people to quit for the night.

Sunstruck is right, back in the day (when we had between 18 and 90(?) bukkits depending on the map), reaching that level of frustration didn't mean quit or que-back-up-to-the-same-fight were the only options; we could switch to a different front. The new system is better for preventing cases of ghost drops because every body is avoiding tough matches. Nobody is denying that the new system avoids ghost drops. But there were virtues to the old system and Sunstruck is not wrong to point them out.

Like so many things, PGI took a really extreme step, going from the 18-90 Bukkit range down to 1. It would not hurt to have more times when factions have a second side bukkit. Roving side conflicts if you will. I know that people used to be able to draw pugs into faction warfare for those less competitive conflicts. The task is less daunting for new players and helps grow interest in the game mode. I certainly don't want the old system back, under the current system I won't even try to band a group of pugs and try to show them the ropes. And I play with enough of you to know that most of you all won't either. Who besides Ash offers to train puggles in the ways of FW? How many people try to draw pugs into their 12 man (I am not talking about the generic advice given to people on these forums)? We don't because the chance of high competition is too great to intentionally bring on players who struggle to break 750 damage. Having a side outlet could do a lot to increase the health of this mode.

Edited by Cato Zilks, 04 February 2018 - 04:10 AM.


#27 Koniving

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:38 AM

Not sure if that includes me, but this isn't quite the same. This is lamenting the sad reality of missed opportunities that PGI could have used to really make their game thrive.

The bucket issue isn't really a big issue... it was a necessity because people weren't playing the mode.
That was the answer to "How can we reduce the wait for matches since there isn't enough people playing the mode?"

But why weren't people playing? That is the real question to answer.
For me... it is because the mode has absolutely no depth and no point. It gets reset periodically, meaning its the same thing over and over again. There's no urgency to it as a result. Faction pride goes out the window too because 'oh noes the faction is in trouble" "Just wait for the reset." "Oh. Ok."

Its a constantly resetting arena shooter. That's pretty much it. Take classic doom, slap a hitbox system on it, allow multiple weapons at once, boom you got mechwarrior online.

The down times in faction play weren't helping anyone either, hour long cease fires at PRIME TIMEs to play after finally getting a group together to play?

PGI overhyped it, true, but even the basic and doable rules weren't even adhered to. "Best of 100 battles" wins the planet. Not true. Just whomever has the current majority by ghost dropping en masse right before the cease fire, regardless of how the battle was tilted is how you got a planet. That was the only real chance a small group had at getting their name on a planet, too. Two teams, ghost drop, rush base, destroy cannon, repeat as frequently as possible, win planet. Unless a bigger group started dropping from your side, then it was theirs despite all the work you put into it... or all the work other players put into actually fighting for it.

All in all... when I want a faction play experience, I go play the unofficial digital tabletop version, MekWars. Combined arms experience, persistent universe, the 7 great houses, personal assets, economy and asymmetric game balance, and hundreds of really good maps. An unfair comparison by far, but PGI kept saying they'd get us something similar and have clearly given up on it if Solaris is any indication (in fact Solaris is getting more work put into it than CW/FW EVER did and Solaris isn't even out yet. Work on CW/Fw could have been used to prototype and enhance their MW5 project but hey... or use their work on MW5 to figure out how they could get some depth into faction play.. but nope, that ship's sailed.)

MWO could have served as an alternate persistent universe in which the players determined the fate of the Inner Sphere through their play. That would have had some strong appeal to gamers and easily could have pulled in a lot of new faces that would in turn become long lasting customers as there would be an on going investment into the game and the future of the factions within it.

The old fluff things PGI used to put out weekly and sometimes daily in closed beta could have added a lot to it, too, such as covering the latest news on the front lines, the latest violations of player made treaties (as Liao and Marik had a lot of these peace agreements between the biggest player groups in the factions, and some group kept starting fights along the border, so player emissaries went over and said it was okay for Marik to retaliate against these groups, to treat it as an 'exercise' and both sides agreed to return any borders that had changed hands.) That stuff was gold, it was deep, and it enriched the game... but then it all ended because... the depth that kept being told would come never came and even stopped not only being put into the roadmap, but now ignored altogether.

Its a tearful shame, really.
Imagine what it could have been.

I did once, based entirely in the confines of what we were told.
131 likes over there as of the time of this writing.

#28 Black Ivan

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:06 AM

Here we go again or what? PGI decided to put minimal possible effort into FW and here we are.

Until there are no serious actions taken to make PGI look at FW again, no chances for any sort of improvement.

#29 Sonny Black

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:20 PM

"There Was A Time When You Didn't Have To Face Evil Or Kcom If You Didn't Want To"



Posted Image

#30 Asym

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 10:51 PM

The community is seriously damaged.... Nothing will or can fix this..... The comp level teams will not change and they will continue to stomp, seal club and meta the meta's meta till meta isn't possible because they can and there's nothing to stop them.........that is, till everyone leaves or, more importantly, stops buying every mech PGI puts up for sale.....

Right now: M = P. Which means Marginal equals Pass..... PGI is making money and that, is the only bargining chip we as a community have....... Stop spending and we just might get Faction Play back after Solaris implodes..... Just a retired player thinking out loud. Good luck.

#31 justcallme A S H

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 02:24 AM

Why should there be anything to stop "META".

Look at any game in existence. If you want to play to win, you play META. That doesn't just apply to video games either.

To continually cry about it is pretty laughable.

#32 Ssamout

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 06:36 AM

View PostAsym, on 06 February 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

The community is seriously damaged.... Nothing will or can fix this.....

Well you know, some people are just beyond hope.

#33 Spheroid

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 11:16 AM

@Ash: This game's business model somewhat depends on continuous output of non-meta to generate sufficient revenue. I mean once the Rifleman IIC comes out what place do other energy boat Clan heavies have? If you deliberately plan a progression of powercreep it is possible that the best stuff will come out too late in the game's lifespan to be fully enjoyed.

Pursuit of meta can often dovetail with P2W problems especially in EA shooters.

Also winning at all costs or with maximum efficiency is often at the cost of fun. What fun would a realistic simulation of the first Gulf War be? Answer none. Look at incursion, most people hate base rushing, but it is however the most efficient means for a win.

Humans exist in FP so that ardous task of programming A.I. can be avoided and replaced with slaves who will provide it for free. Wasn't the enjoyment of phase 1-2 the ficticious racism and memes of faction shaming? Seems social recognition for FP skill is redundant and given that same ability is possible through comp.

Ideally FP would have a series of self-balancing negative feedback mechanisms, be them faction equipment limits, scaling tonnage caps or merc c-bills payouts.These gradually increasing negative feedback mechasims would invalidate the potency of W/L or K/D stats and replace it with one of speed, the speed at which a given player, group or faction reaches a said equilibrium point provided by these negative feedback mechanism. Basically a version of realm divide from Total War, and make no mistake that is what faction warfare should be Total War: Battletech with all the trappings of factions and their characteristics.

What use is modeling hundreds of distinct mechs if only a handful are played? Seems like poor utilization of existing assets. If I was compelled to honor the equipment available for any given faction PGI would actually make more money from mech bay sales and increase the motivation of long term grinding.

Edited by Spheroid, 07 February 2018 - 11:38 AM.


#34 Grus

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:10 PM

View PostRaptorCWS, on 04 February 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

would it make you feel better if we created new units every other week so you have no clue you are about to face us?


that would be truly... EVIL.... Posted Image

#35 Windscape

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:14 PM

Ok, new players, vetran players, salty players etc. here are somethings you should know.
When you play FP, you need to ALWAYS expect to face a kcom/evil or other group. ALWAYS bring your best mechs, so you can be ready. When you play FP, you sign a nonexistent waver to be allowed face a premade, keeep that in mind, beacuse you are willingly jumping into a game that may have a good premade on the other side.

Here is what you need to do:
1. Go to the "guides and strategies forum"
2. If thats too much info for you, at least read this: https://mwomercs.com...ics-101-comics/
3. Hone your skills in QP
4. Play FP, if you undepreform, read this: https://mwomercs.com...-play-training/
5. Now you have a good deck, if you still lose, and dont like loosing, get discord and ts and find a group
6. ????
7. Profit!

Edited by Windscape, 07 February 2018 - 12:20 PM.


#36 r4zen

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:39 PM

View PostWindscape, on 07 February 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

7. Profit!


hello i am your spuddy, pls tell, how to skip to just this step? other steps not fit my vision of being powerful mechwarrior

#37 Grus

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 12:52 PM

But... why wouldn't you want to fight EVIL or KCOM?...

#38 C H E E K I E Z

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:26 PM

I reject your meta, and substitute it with my own!

#39 Sunstruck

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 10:00 PM

All I was trying to say is that in Phase 2, in House Marik we were able to fight other Inner Sphere Loyalists. The system as it is now does not let the Inner Sphere loyalist units fight against each other. Back in the day, most of our fights were against units that were similar in size and skill as us. Because the mercs preferred the clans, and we were rarely on a clan front.

But I guess now that mercs become loyalists anyway nothing at all matters anymore with faction warfare, sigh.

Its really so sad, and yes most the time I don't play cw anymore just like a lot of other people I know. I only play to help the handfull of players that still like to play on House Marik TS fill up a 12 man so that they can have a better chance, since I do have a lot of cw experience.

#40 Grus

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:16 PM

IDK, i try to keep the attitude of this when i see EVIL or KCOM or even ISEN and MS on the other team.

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