1125 replies to this topic

[ROSS-128]

Khobai, on 08 February 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

if they hit at the same time it would still be considered one hit obviously, otherwise it would be pointless

youd have to offset them by a fraction of a second to get around the protection

but that would make it harder to hit the cockpit with both


of course it might just be better to get rid of cockpit shots entirely. they dont really add anything beneficial to the game anyway. nobody likes being headshotted by dual HGR. there is no fun in that.

it wasnt really a problem before HGR. but dual HGR has made it an issue again.

Perhaps you would like your opponent to obtain written permission to kill your mech, via certified mail?

This "problem" only exists in your head.

[Cementi]

Johnathan Von Tanner, on 08 February 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

Hey I just went and reread the proposed change list. All the good stuff about de linking gauss ppcs is lined out? Whats up with that?

Maybe because they realized that the majority of the playerbase does not want to ever see PPC Gauss pop tarting ever again because it was pretty much the most mind numbingly boring meta to ever "grace" the game.

[InvictusLee]

Cementi, on 08 February 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

Maybe because they realized that the majority of the playerbase does not want to ever see PPC Gauss pop tarting ever again because it was pretty much the most mind numbingly boring meta to ever "grace" the game.

no one likes getting one shot from across the map.

[Dioxide]

I'm loving the idea of just about every single one of these changes. Pls PGI make 10 slot LB20 happen. I'm also shocked that all autocannons don't have the universal 200 dmg per ton. seems like a bit of an oversight to me.

[Cementi]

When I passed this on to my group via discord one of them had this to say. I can't say I disagree with him even with them striking a line through the ppc gauss stuff.


[color=rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.7)]at a quick read through, this looks like a group of proposals by some of the "higher tier" players and groups to enable their particular play style to become more dominant and to make the game even more unbalanced out side of that. It almost increases the biggest complaints many people have with the game.[/color]

[Khobai]

Quote

Perhaps you would like your opponent to obtain written permission to kill your mech, via certified mail?

This "problem" only exists in your head.

locusts and pirahnas getting killed in one hit is not a problem that exists in my head

[Kamikaze Viking]

To all the people against PPC Gauss partial rollback.

Remember rock paper scissors.

ERLL is OP - Counter it with Gauss PPC.
Brawl is OP - Counter it with Laservomit
Laservom is OP - Counter it with LRMs
LRMS are OP - Counter it with Brawling lights
Gauss PPC is OP, Counter it with Closing range in cover
ERLL is OP still - again counter it by closing range in cover
Brawl is OP, Counter it by kiting with ERLL.

ETC ETC.

Not having each playstyle available and at least partially viable, means that something else gets an indirect buff due to omission of its counter.

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 08 February 2018 - 03:22 PM.

[Johnathan Von Tanner]

Khobai, on 08 February 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

nobody likes being headshotted by dual HGR. there is no fun in that.

No but if your the guy with the gauss its absolutely hilarious.

[Gas Guzzler]

MrSomaru, on 08 February 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

I will say this: PPCGauss needs to stay dead. I could explain myself about exactly WHY, and it is not due to being skill related. Long story short: Very low risk, high reward playstyle for 35 or 40 pinpoint damage at 600+ meters. please take into account, "VERY LOW RISK." i.e., hard to counter now. Please use your heads.

You aren't using your head if you are worried about 35 damage in the era of 70-94 damage alpha strikes on anything above 65 tons.

[ROSS-128]

Khobai, on 08 February 2018 - 03:01 PM, said:

locusts and pirahnas getting killed in one hit is not a problem that exists in my head

Good, because outside your head it's not a problem at all.

But I suppose it might be fun to set a reference point: in your opinion, if you take the largest mech in the game with the most damaging loadout possible, what is the absolute minimum number of volleys it should need to kill a Locust that it hit at the weakest point? (Which for reference, is likely a rear ST if it's running an XL engine).

[Johnathan Von Tanner]

I thought the whole point of this thing was to make the game fun again by opening up alternatives to lazor vom. Alternatives that we had until somebody decided to nerf all the things, In a brain dead attempt at balance that only succeeded in boring us and a, what was it? 25% population loss over 6 months?

Gauss PPC is in NO way OP when my hellbringer can drop a 70 pinpoint alpha for the lolz and duck back into cover faster than a NTG could drop down.

This was good as it was presented, Now its quickly turning into balance by potato.

[Bud Crue]

Cementi, on 08 February 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

Maybe because they realized that the majority of the playerbase does not want to ever see PPC Gauss pop tarting ever again because it was pretty much the most mind numbingly boring meta to ever "grace" the game.

Can someone tell me what mechs this "PPC Gauss pop tarting" "meta" was an issue with?
I just never thought of it as a big deal, when there were like three mechs that could do it at all and less than that that could do it effectively. Even if we go to the more recent "Gauss/PPC" 'meta" (without poptarting) there is only like 6 mechs in the whole game that could really pull it off.

To my way of thinking when something is this selective, don't kill it across the board as PGI did with the ghost heat link, instead address the "problem mechs" individually with either quirks to encourage some other weapons or -god forbid- negative quirks (e.g. extra heat gen with PPCs) to discourage the use much in the same way as the broader across the board ghost heat association has been applied but instead on a mech to mech basis. If I had my way mechs with the greatest mass and highest hard points that could run the combo would get something like the greatest incentive/disincentive to run something else with lower mass and worse hard points getting hit to a lesser degree. There is just no reason why a a Grasshopper hero with its knee high balistic point should suffer to the same degree as say an MK-II, but under the current ghost heat solution they are both considered equally viable and effective with the combo, and that is BS but the way PGI approaches the problem. Silly.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Since there's so much that could be said, I'll talk about the biggest thing right now. Clan laser alpha vomit builds. To have a real impact on them that's more than just a token change, the nerf to ER medium and heavy large laser damage needs to be more, with heat and cooldown buffed to compensate. I would suggest:

Clan ER medium lasers: 6 damage, 5.3 heat, 3.6 cooldown.
Clan heavy large lasers: 16 damage, 14.0 heat, 5.75 cooldown.

Those two changes would go a long way to curbing laser alpha vomit, while keeping both weapons usable and useful.

[Khobai]

thered be no reason to use CHLL at 16 damage

thats the whole reason they made it 18 damage

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 08 February 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

thered be no reason to use CHLL at 16 damage

thats the whole reason they made it 18 damage

It would still do more damage per ton and per hardpoint than the Clan ERLL and LPL.

Edited by FupDup, 08 February 2018 - 03:37 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bud Crue, on 08 February 2018 - 03:34 PM, said:

Can someone tell me what mechs this "PPC Gauss pop tarting" "meta" was an issue with?
I just never thought of it as a big deal, when there were like three mechs that could do it at all and less than that that could do it effectively. Even if we go to the more recent "Gauss/PPC" 'meta" (without poptarting) there is only like 6 mechs in the whole game that could really pull it off.

To my way of thinking when something is this selective, don't kill it across the board as PGI did with the ghost heat link, instead address the "problem mechs" individually with either quirks to encourage some other weapons or -god forbid- negative quirks (e.g. extra heat gen with PPCs) to discourage the use much in the same way as the broader across the board ghost heat association has been applied but instead on a mech to mech basis. If I had my way mechs with the greatest mass and highest hard points that could run the combo would get something like the greatest incentive/disincentive to run something else with lower mass and worse hard points getting hit to a lesser degree. There is just no reason why a a Grasshopper hero with its knee high balistic point should suffer to the same degree as say an MK-II, but under the current ghost heat solution they are both considered equally viable and effective with the combo, and that is BS but the way PGI approaches the problem. Silly.

Those Night Gyrs that were already nerfed to death to just barely be effective still have people worried.

People can't seem to realize that this is a different game. The Night Gyr was just barely hanging on right before they linked the Ghost Heat. Folks are still too traumatized to think rationally about how that 40 PPFLD is not going to all of a sudden dethrone the other **** on the field.

[J0anna]

What I have read I overall like. PGI has created a game that has no real purpose other than enjoying killing each other. And let's face it, we tend to enjoy that aspect. I support any recommendations that make it easier to kill people, I have not enjoyed the balance decisions that have reduced the deadliness of weapons. I have always felt that TTK was fine, if someone did something foolish, like cross open ground in range of the enemy, they deserve to have their drop end very quickly. The fact that currently, well played battles are simple attrition where players slowly damage each other over time, has resulted in my playing time being devoted to other games.

[Tarl Cabot]

Khobai, on 08 February 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

if they hit at the same time it would still be considered one hit obviously, otherwise it would be pointless

youd have to offset them by a fraction of a second to get around the protection

but that would make it harder to hit the cockpit with both


of course it might just be better to get rid of cockpit shots entirely. they dont really add anything beneficial to the game anyway. nobody likes being headshotted by dual HGR. there is no fun in that.

it wasnt really a problem before HGR. but dual HGR has made it an issue again.

In MPBT, head/cockpit shots were given a RNG, in that even if you hit the cockpit there was no guarantee it would hit. If the RNG determined a cockpit miss it would instead deflect to CT.

Edit even back then the cockpit HP was higher than TT default, the only section that the armor/is spec did not match TT. And we were only using stock 3025 mechs.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 08 February 2018 - 03:49 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 February 2018 - 03:39 PM, said:

Those Night Gyrs that were already nerfed to death to just barely be effective still have people worried.

People can't seem to realize that this is a different game. The Night Gyr was just barely hanging on right before they linked the Ghost Heat. Folks are still too traumatized to think rationally about how that 40 PPFLD is not going to all of a sudden dethrone the other **** on the field.

I just want my POS 0xp with 2ERPPCs and a GR back. It was an incredibly situational right side poker that worked on like 3 maps and only if the team went to the right spots, but to PGI it is just as OP as the dreaded pre-nerf Night Gyr or even a Mad-IIc. Both are silly comparisons, and yet here we are. I just wish they would use a little imagination (I know, I know, that takes effort) rather than the typical across the board changes, especially given that we have a game where the mechs are not remotely the same "across the board".

Edited by Bud Crue, 08 February 2018 - 03:48 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 08 February 2018 - 03:39 PM, said:

but thats not why people use the CHLL

they use the CHLL because it gives them the biggest alphas when combined with CERMLs

if it no longer gives you a big alpha, its not worth all the other downsides it has like absurd beam duration and cooldown.

the only way I could see the CHLL work at 16 damage is if you changed the mechanics of how heavy lasers worked. like making them do some of their damage as PPFLD.

if the heavy laser did like 5 PPFLD immediately then burned for the rest of the damage. like a hybrid ppc/laser it would still be worth considering.

Maybe the design of heavy lasers for gigastrike alphas was a mistake from the get-go, hmmm? The whole point of them was to give mechs with low hardpoint counts and/or low pod space an option that lets them pack a useful level of firepower, not to enhance already powerful laser vomit on well-endowed chassis.