366 replies to this topic

[Humpday]

Samial, on 12 February 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

I've played many many multiplayer games over the years, the condescending and bigotry in this community is just as bad as the balance issues all these people do is help kill the games...

Its a game people good pings and good hand eye coordination does not make you better than anyone else...

wut?
So how do you judge whos better than who?

[Angus McFife VI]

Humpday, on 12 February 2018 - 06:09 PM, said:

wut?
So how do you judge whos better than who?

No no no that's inequality and bigoted, skill level means nothing!

Everyone's feedback should be ******* equally valuable, even the people who don't know what they're doing, let them determine what needs fixing and changes!

[justcallme A S H]

Samial, on 12 February 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

I've played many many multiplayer games over the years, the condescending and bigotry in this community is just as bad as the balance issues all these people do is help kill the games...

Its a game people good pings and good hand eye coordination does not make you better than anyone else...

Well I have neither yet I do quite well at the game.

Hell I had 400ms last night (I didn't even realise until someone pointed it out) and was still carrying teams to victory!

Anyway understanding the game goes much deeper than that and you can tell, quite easily once you reach a certian level of play, who knows what they are talking about and who does not.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 12 February 2018 - 06:21 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dee Eight, on 12 February 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

They're more effective boated... 6-8 LB2s will make most things go away in short order.

But everything's more effective boated, boating is just a multiplier to how good a thing is, 6 AC2s > 6 LBX2s, precision and being actually useful at long range is pretty neato.

[UnofficialOperator]

Samial, on 12 February 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

I've played many many multiplayer games over the years, the condescending and bigotry in this community is just as bad as the balance issues all these people do is help kill the games...

Its a game people good pings and good hand eye coordination does not make you better than anyone else...

Were you as "good" in those games as this one? Did you also face the same amount of condescension and bigotry in those games?

I wonder what's the common factor?

[Angus McFife VI]

UnofficialOperator, on 12 February 2018 - 06:32 PM, said:

Were you as "good" in those games as this one? Did you also face the same amount of condescension and bigotry in those games?

I wonder what's the common factor?

You know unofficial operator, you're a real salt miner, and I love you for it.

[Deathlike]

Dee Eight, on 12 February 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

They're more effective boated... 6-8 LB2s will make most things go away in short order.

I'm pretty sure you're serious, even when that build is not.

[Zergling]

Koniving, on 12 February 2018 - 04:57 AM, said:

Tier 2 and up are boring as ****, the same builds day in and day out, the same ways to kill them, the same ways to deal with them.

Meta builds are, as a rule, more difficult to deal with than non-meta builds, because meta builds are simply more effective than non-meta builds, and the surprise factor of non-meta builds is minimal to non-existent compared to the reduced effectiveness of non-meta vs meta.

And I find fighting challenging opponents to be 'less boring', so I'll have to disagree with your claim that Tier 2 and up is boring.

Koniving, on 12 February 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

in fact a number of non-meta builds make it easier to kill meta mechs.

Such as? Any examples? And please don't mention flamer builds against laser vomit meta, because 9 times out of 10, flamer builds will be dead before they get in range.

Koniving, on 12 February 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

Sometimes it does increase the challenge, but unless they start using below maximum armor or start using standard heatsinks, they aren't looking for challenge.

Please explain to me how playing an Uziel 2S isn't more challenging than running a laser vomit Hellbringer.

Koniving, on 12 February 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

Where you can be surprised as yesterday's tier 4 build becomes tomorrow's tier 1 build.

Tier 4 builds are basically 'bracket builds' and 'LRM boats'. Those aren't ever going to be T1 meta unless PGI makes massive changes, which is highly unlikely.

Koniving, on 12 February 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

Where do you think laser vomit came from when ACs were the meta?

All meta comes from the top players that analyse patch notes for balance changes, and assess their impact.

Koniving, on 12 February 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

There's a reason they're achieving those 1% stats. No one knows the exact method of a random surprise build, but he still knows how to kill those meta builds built with his and other players' designs because they never change due to players being stupid about them.

Absolutely false.

The actual reason is that they are genuinely good players that perform well even when not using meta builds.

As I've already stated, the 'surprise' factor of non-meta builds is negligible.

Koniving, on 12 February 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

We also have new players jumping to tier 1 within 200 matches or less just 'cause they start with a meta build and once up there, they complain of how ****** the game is because their meta builds stop working when everyone knows how to kill them and their lack of experience.

Enjoyment of the game lowers at Tier 1 because Tier 1 players are hit with a large matchmaking penalty that lumps them with lots of bad teammates, as they are then expected to carry teams to victory.
Basically, the matchmaker effectively punishes good players and rewards the bad.


Aside from that, anyone that makes Tier 1 in 200 matches or less is scoring waaaaaay above average, which requires actual skill to do even with meta builds.

Eg, it took me over 1100 battles to go from Tier 3 to 1, in Season 3 to 8, while achieving an overall average MS of 281 for those 6 Seasons.
Achieving Tier 4 to Tier 1 in 200 battles or less would likely require over 400 average matchscore.

There is increased weighting on PSR Tier for new players, but it is only for 20 battles; it is nowhere near enough to allow a player to reach Tier 1 in only a few hundred battles unless they are scoring stupidly good. Which means they'll be a good player even without using meta mechs.

Edited by Zergling, 13 February 2018 - 12:11 AM.

[MischiefSC]

It's a game, play it and have fun. That's always rule #1.

However as a given rule the people who say 'I don't care if I win or lose' are almost universally lying. I get why; it takes the sting out of losing and if you have no interest in or intention to work to get better at the game it's really all you've got.

I really, really doubt however that any measurable number of players go into each match going 'I have absolutely no interest in trying to win, I'm just going to wander around, maybe shoot some stuff. However I'm not going to do anything that's likely to result in winning because this game is awesome to just wander around and shoot randomly in'.

Of course everyone is trying to win. Of course winning is more enjoyable than losing. It's so dishonest as to be idiotic and insulting ot say otherwise.

Better understanding about how the game works leads to winning more often consistently. Success is something you demonstrate through action and consistent success is the product of having a system that works and understanding how to use it and apply it. For games and for anything else.

However when people argue what the results of something in the game will be or how something works in the game it's not unreasonable to look at how well they play the game, which is what stats show. There's no shame in it; it's a game. If someone has their ego tied up in big stompy robbits then they have bigger issues than a forum can resolve. However if we're arguing 'X works better than Y at winning matches in MWO' and the guy saying that wins 75% of their matches while the guy saying 'no it doesn't' wins 30% of their matches, the first guys argument holds more weight because he's clearly demonstrated he knows what wins better than the second guy.

You still want to analyze the statement, qualify and test it like you do any assertion but stats are absolutely relevant to that discussion.

Sure, there's some good players who are really stupid about the game but have learned some narrow behaviors by rote that they leverage to success. That's a minority however. As a given rule top performers are top performers because they understand why wins, how and why.

[Lukoi Banacek]

The publication of data on the leaderboards has zero impact on your ability to enjoy the game and the Devs don't listen to any of the self-anointed experts anyway, relying instead on their data and their interpretation of it regardless of what folks attempt to show them.

So, I'd argue there's zero valid reason to remove a useful information tool that folks enjoy using for a variety of purposes.

[Horseman]

Samial, on 12 February 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

I've played many many multiplayer games over the years, the condescending and bigotry in this community is just as bad as the balance issues all these people do is help kill the games...

Its a game people good pings and good hand eye coordination does not make you better than anyone else...

Good ping and good hand eye coordination are not the be-all, end-all in this game. Understanding the mechanics and leveraging them to your advantage is a substantial part of what makes a top performer.

Zergling, on 12 February 2018 - 10:36 PM, said:

Enjoyment of the game lowers at Tier 1 because Tier 1 players are hit with a large matchmaking penalty that lumps them with lots of bad teammates, as they are then expected to carry teams to victory.

And let's not forget that literally half the player base is in T1.

MischiefSC, on 12 February 2018 - 10:52 PM, said:

Better understanding about how the game works leads to winning more often consistently. Success is something you demonstrate through action and consistent success is the product of having a system that works and understanding how to use it and apply it. (...)
However if we're arguing 'X works better than Y at winning matches in MWO' and the guy saying that wins 75% of their matches while the guy saying 'no it doesn't' wins 30% of their matches, the first guys argument holds more weight because he's clearly demonstrated he knows what wins better than the second guy.
You still want to analyze the statement, qualify and test it like you do any assertion but stats are absolutely relevant to that discussion.
(...) As a given rule top performers are top performers because they understand why wins, how and why.

QFT.

Edited by Horseman, 13 February 2018 - 12:05 AM.

[Zergling]

Horseman, on 13 February 2018 - 12:04 AM, said:

Good ping and good hand eye coordination are not the be-all, end-all in this game. Understanding the mechanics and leveraging them to your advantage is a substantial part of what makes a top performer.

Hell, I have a 220-280 ms ping and terrible eyesight that forces me to use low FoV and advanced zoom a lot.

There's tons of far better players than me that have similar or worse handicaps, but those handicaps don't hold them back much because understanding the game is more important than ping or traditional FPS skills like twitch shooting.

Edited by Zergling, 13 February 2018 - 12:44 AM.

[BEST EGG]

Mediocre eyesight and terrible geographic pings got this ******* noob in the top 2%

https://leaderboard....arch?u=best+egg

[pattonesque]

Zergling, on 12 February 2018 - 10:36 PM, said:

As I've already stated, the 'surprise' factor of non-meta builds is negligible.

It's mostly "surprise! this mech is not as dangerous as it could be"

like walking around a corner, seeing an Atlas, bracing for the AC/20/SRM combo and then you realize "oh it's got LRMs, nevermind" and kill it

[Damnedtroll]

It's fun to have stats, you can work to improve yourself and also discard the battlemech that are just underperforming all the time.

I don't have a gamer computer, my screen have a 4:3 ratio not helping at all my situation awareness, it's sure that i will not be at the top of the list just because of that. My piloting is quite average and i still manage to be stuck in Tier 1 ( that's a big game flaw).

If you are the competitive one, you will always take your best mech and playing with it all the time. Not trying stupid build for fun or buying underperformer. You will therefore fight for the leaderboard a little bit more. But i Like to take stupid builds from time to time just to have fun. Or trying to improve my gauss skills that are astronomically low.

Feeling shame about it ? nope. But i will not take the lead in Faction play and will never be bitching potatos.

Edited by Damnedtroll, 13 February 2018 - 06:02 AM.

[Kroete]

Dont LRM me please, on 12 February 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

Everyone's feedback should be ******* equally valuable, even the people who don't know what they're doing, let them determine what needs fixing and changes!

Some reality check?

All players can suggest something, doesnt matter what skill he is or if the suggestion is stupid.
Feedback is needed from every player if you want a succesfull game,
if not you neet to milk the core-group really hard.
The devs do what they want, taking or ignoring suggestions and feedbacks.
Only the devs determine what needs fixing and changes.

And dont miss its a f2p game with some p2w elements, the only thing it determines the balance is to get max profit from all playertyps. If you balance for comp and tryhard you will lose lots of money from the casualplayers or need to get more in pw2 to milk the tryhards even harder.

[Dago Red]

Mech The Dane, on 12 February 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

We probably don't need to all pile on Koniving. Where ever his skill may rest at, he's been a very good early resource and friendly guide for many new players to the game.


Also, look, the Jarl's List is down. The Lighthouse got his way!

The Jackals are in pack hunting mode and smell blood. You think they're going to suddenly learn how to act like decent human beings now of all times?

Edited by Dago Red, 13 February 2018 - 06:09 AM.

[BEST EGG]

Damnedtroll, on 13 February 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

It's fun to have stats, you can work to improve yourself and also discard the battlemech that are just underperforming all the time.

I don't have a gamer computer, my screen have a 4:3 ratio not helping at all my situation awareness, it's sure that i will not be at the top of the list just because of that. My piloting is quite average and i still manage to be stuck in Tier 1 ( that's a big game flaw).

If you are the competitive one, you will always take your best mech and playing with it all the time. Not trying stupid build for fun or buying underperformer. You will therefore fight for the leaderboard a little bit more. But i Like to take stupid builds from time to time just to have fun. Or trying to improve my gauss skills that are astronomically low.

Feeling shame about it ? nope. But i will not take the lead in Faction play and will never be bitching potatos.

You may feel average, but jarl's list puts you in the top ~25% of the playerbase

[Koniving]

Zergling, on 12 February 2018 - 10:36 PM, said:

Meta builds are, as a rule, more difficult to deal with than non-meta builds, because meta builds are simply more effective than non-meta builds, and the surprise factor of non-meta builds is minimal to non-existent compared to the reduced effectiveness of non-meta vs meta.

And I find fighting challenging opponents to be 'less boring', so I'll have to disagree with your claim that Tier 2 and up is boring.

Meta builds are difficult to deal with in their NICHE, when supported appropriately to deal with their weaknesses, but as they are built with team play in mind, the weaknesses are not easy to contend with as they are complimented by other builds that support them. For example a missile boat would have an escort. A laser vomit rig will have a second laser vomit rig handy so that when one overheats the other finishes the job or a ballistic vomit build so that there's a constant looming suppression supporting the can-opener.

In solo queue, such support is unlikely to exist and thus, the blarring obvious weakenesses that come from operating on your own. Laser vomit overheats and becomes helpless. Ballistic boats run out of ammo and can only focus one target at a time. Missile boats wind up without escorts (this is why LRMs are shunned by meta, no support). The list goes on and on. Find weakness, exploit weakness, meta builds are thusly easier to dispatch. They rely on others to carry them through their weaknesses.

An anti-meta build works around this. It has defenses. If it has LRMs, it has a defense for up close. It isn't dedicated to just one niche. Unlike an AC/20 boat, it has some long range capabilities. Unlike a sniper rig, it has some close range defenses. It can protect itself, it can engage multiple targets simultaineously, it runs cold enough to have endurance to take on the next enemy after the first is dispatched because it isn't built to rely on support. It is built to kill meta mechs without the weaknesses and reliance that meta mechs.are inherently built with.

Quote

Such as? Any examples? And please don't mention flamer builds against laser vomit meta, because 9 times out of 10, flamer builds will be dead before they get in range.

Already gave examples.

Quote

Please explain to me how playing an Uziel 2S isn't more challenging than running a laser vomit Hellbringer.

I don't have one. I imagine it won't die as easily. Hellbringers are pushovers.
All CT, no hud, with an LBX-20 and a 5 shot UAC/20.
Pushovers. Giant CT, easy to slaughter.

Quote

Tier 4 builds are basically 'bracket builds' and 'LRM boats'. Those aren't ever going to be T1 meta unless PGI makes massive changes, which is highly unlikely.

And what tier 4 have you been playing? Because it obviously isn't my tier 4 or tier 3.

Quote

All meta comes from the top players that analyse patch notes for balance changes, and assess their impact.

I can name at least one that came from a brand new pilot, less than a month in, that got adopted by many players. Hunchback 4G with AC/20, twin MGs, 3 medium lasers. Its a minor mod of my own design which used 3 SPL instead. Look that one up on meta mechs and tell me where it's ranked.

Quote

Absolutely false.

The actual reason is that they are genuinely good players that perform well even when not using meta builds.

As I've already stated, the 'surprise' factor of non-meta builds is negligible.

The only way for YOUR statement to be true, is if their opponents are potatoes. Remember, their opponents are ALSO TIER 1, ALSO TOP PLAYERS, whom are STILL USING META MECHS AGAINST THEM and YET COMPLETELY ******* INCOMPETENT...

OR my statement is true. Take your pick, you can't argue both without defeating one of the two arguments. So which is it? Because your logic defeats itself. And that isn't good.

Quote

Enjoyment of the game lowers at Tier 1 because Tier 1 players are hit with a large matchmaking penalty that lumps them with lots of bad teammates, as they are then expected to carry teams to victory.
Basically, the matchmaker effectively punishes good players and rewards the bad.

So you mean that they are put into matches with LOTS of EASY TO KILL POTATOES, which allow them to PAD THEIR STATS, and basically have a free time to make themselves LOOK GOOD for the MINDLESS to worship and oogle, while they pump out bad builds for us to use that DO NOT WORK outside of their NICHE, and allow people to line up for the SLAUGHTER?

Huh. No wonder why they do so good. I'm so glad you could enlighten us. I just wish you'd enlighten yourself along the way.

Quote

Aside from that, anyone that makes Tier 1 in 200 matches or less is scoring waaaaaay above average, which requires actual skill to do even with meta builds.

With all the potatoes you just told me that they get put into matches with instead of highly skilled players to fight with and against... is it any wonder? I mean seriously?

Quote

Eg, it took me over 1100 battles to go from Tier 3 to 1, in Season 3 to 8, while achieving an overall average MS of 281 for those 6 Seasons.
Achieving Tier 4 to Tier 1 in 200 battles or less would likely require over 400 average matchscore.

Actually, what it requires is a low number of matches. Take your TOTAL MATCHES. Give me a ratio of how many matches you ad to do to go from tier 3 to tier 1 versus how many matches you had.

Now compare that to how many matches it takes a new player to go from tier 5 to tier 1 in 200 matches... when they had 250 matches?

Huh. Did you notice something? It's called MATH. In the total number of matches the new player did, he performed spectacularly and got SKYROCKETED on a JET PACK loaded with 37 Class 1 Jumpjets in 0.00000001 times the Earth's gravity.

You had to do it with 1 class 1 jumpjet, in 15 times Earth's gravity. You had to work for it.
The new guy didn't, he got a low number of matches which results in a low ratio of good versus bad matches, which results in looking far better than you do in a system that doesn't know how to judge skill, just stats relative to the number of matches played.

Quote

There is increased weighting on PSR Tier for new players, but it is only for 20 battles; it is nowhere near enough to allow a player to reach Tier 1 in only a few hundred battles unless they are scoring stupidly good. Which means they'll be a good player even without using meta mechs.

20 battles with increased weighting, plus low ratio of total matches played, and as long as they do well in their matches played they will sky rocket. Know how they do that? They get a niche mech from meta mechs, they learn that other new players don't know how to kill it,

After all the system goes by ow well you do per match versus how many matches you have, thus the XP bar syndrome. Once they hit tier 2 and tier 1 they begin encountering players that know what to do to kill said meta mech on a regular basis.
Long range meta, wait til its distracted, get in close and slaughter with close range. Energy meta, wait til it burns out and blast it; repeat as necessary. Ammo meta, wait til it gets tunnel vision, do a little dance and insta-kill it. The list goes on.

(Also I don't use the new flamers, it leaves the user very vulnerable very quickly. Old flamers at least had the courtesy of blinding people and a trick to be infinitely cold -- since lets be honest they didn't heat anyone anyway) Leave that for the easy to kill chumps whom try to flame you only to realize -- you run too cold and know how to switch to chain fire.


From the old PSR system in which I'd be put in the same matches with Sean Lang and The B33f. Trial mech, no skill tree, before quirks.
That's skill. 2 versus one against an identical build and a custom Jenner. The Jenner's entire amount of damage was done by me by chasing it across the map for a while, so that's all my work (you can rewind to check).

Using a point and click mech when you know the weakness of every single enemy you face, in an environment where they can't cover their weaknesses with well coordinated team mates... and in your own words, with both teams loaded with potatoes... isn't skill. It's stat padding, which tier one players get to do a LOT of.

...because they're all damn potatoes.

Edited by Koniving, 13 February 2018 - 08:27 AM.

[Vxheous]

Koniving, on 13 February 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

Meta builds are difficult to deal with in their NICHE, when supported appropriately to deal with their weaknesses, but as they are built with team play in mind, the weaknesses are not easy to contend with as they are complimented by other builds that support them. For example a missile boat would have an escort. A laser vomit rig will have a second laser vomit rig handy so that when one overheats the other finishes the job or a ballistic vomit build so that there's a constant looming suppression supporting the can-opener.

In solo queue, such support is unlikely to exist and thus, the blarring obvious weakenesses that come from operating on your own. Laser vomit overheats and becomes helpless. Ballistic boats run out of ammo and can only focus one target at a time. Missile boats wind up without escorts (this is why LRMs are shunned by meta, no support). The list goes on and on. Find weakness, exploit weakness, meta builds are thusly easier to dispatch. They rely on others to carry them through their weaknesses.

An anti-meta build works around this. It has defenses. If it has LRMs, it has a defense for up close. It isn't dedicated to just one niche. Unlike an AC/20 boat, it has some long range capabilities. Unlike a sniper rig, it has some close range defenses. It can protect itself, it can engage multiple targets simultaineously, it runs cold enough to have endurance to take on the next enemy after the first is dispatched because it isn't built to rely on support. It is built to kill meta mechs without the weaknesses and reliance that meta mechs.are inherently built with.

Already gave examples.


I don't have one. I imagine it won't die as easily. Hellbringers are pushovers.
All CT, no hud, with an LBX-20 and a 5 shot UAC/20.
Pushovers. Giant CT, easy to slaughter.


And what tier 4 have you been playing? Because it obviously isn't my tier 4 or tier 3.


I can name at least one that came from a brand new pilot, less than a month in, that got adopted by many players. Hunchback 4G with AC/20, twin MGs, 3 medium lasers. Its a minor mod of my own design which used 3 SPL instead. Look that one up on meta mechs and tell me where it's ranked.


The only way for YOUR statement to be true, is if their opponents are potatoes. Remember, their opponents are ALSO TIER 1, ALSO TOP PLAYERS, whom are STILL USING META MECHS AGAINST THEM and YET COMPLETELY ******* INCOMPETENT...

OR my statement is true. Take your pick, you can't argue both without defeating one of the two arguments. So which is it? Because your logic defeats itself. And that isn't good.



So you mean that they are put into matches with LOTS of EASY TO KILL POTATOES, which allow them to PAD THEIR STATS, and basically have a free time to make themselves LOOK GOOD for the MINDLESS to worship and oogle, while they pump out bad builds for us to use that DO NOT WORK outside of their NICHE, and allow people to line up for the SLAUGHTER?

Huh. No wonder why they do so good. I'm so glad you could enlighten us. I just wish you'd enlighten yourself along the way.


With all the potatoes you just told me that they get put into matches with instead of highly skilled players to fight with and against... is it any wonder? I mean seriously?


Actually, what it requires is a low number of matches. Take your TOTAL MATCHES. Give me a ratio of how many matches you ad to do to go from tier 3 to tier 1 versus how many matches you had.

Now compare that to how many matches it takes a new player to go from tier 5 to tier 1 in 200 matches... when they had 250 matches?

Huh. Did you notice something? It's called MATH. In the total number of matches the new player did, he performed spectacularly and got SKYROCKETED on a JET PACK loaded with 37 Class 1 Jumpjets in 0.00000001 times the Earth's gravity.

You had to do it with 1 class 1 jumpjet, in 15 times Earth's gravity. You had to work for it.
The new guy didn't, he got a low number of matches which results in a low ratio of good versus bad matches, which results in looking far better than you do in a system that doesn't know how to judge skill, just stats relative to the number of matches played.


20 battles with increased weighting, plus low ratio of total matches played, and as long as they do well in their matches played they will sky rocket. Know how they do that? They get a niche mech from meta mechs, they learn that other new players don't know how to kill it,

After all the system goes by ow well you do per match versus how many matches you have, thus the XP bar syndrome. Once they hit tier 2 and tier 1 they begin encountering players that know what to do to kill said meta mech on a regular basis.
Long range meta, wait til its distracted, get in close and slaughter with close range. Energy meta, wait til it burns out and blast it; repeat as necessary. Ammo meta, wait til it gets tunnel vision, do a little dance and insta-kill it. The list goes on.

(Also I don't use the new flamers, it leaves the user very vulnerable very quickly. Old flamers at least had the courtesy of blinding people and a trick to be infinitely cold -- since lets be honest they didn't heat anyone anyway) Leave that for the easy to kill chumps whom try to flame you only to realize -- you run too cold and know how to switch to chain fire.


From the old PSR system in which I'd be put in the same matches with Sean Lang and The B33f. Trial mech, no skill tree, before quirks.
That's skill. 2 versus one against an identical build and a custom Jenner. The Jenner's entire amount of damage was done by me by chasing it across the map for a while, so that's all my work (you can rewind to check).

Using a point and click mech when you know the weakness of every single enemy you face, in an environment where they can't cover their weaknesses with well coordinated team mates... and in your own words, with both teams loaded with potatoes... isn't skill. It's stat padding, which tier one players get to do a LOT of.

...because they're all damn potatoes.

I'm still waiting for Koniving to put together that MRBC team to prove Tier 1's are actually potatoes.

Edited by Vxheous, 13 February 2018 - 08:30 AM.