426 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

nehebkau, on 14 February 2018 - 07:32 AM, said:

I would humbly submit that LRMs are a zero skill weapon, and as such should have a zero skill counter. In higher levels of game play actually aiming and using direct fire weapons is far more fun than LRMing.... unless you are LRMing T4s and T5s -- that is fun.

Seriously bro just stop.
Doesn't take much at all to point and click.
Because that's is all you are doing.
At least with LRM's and Ballistics you actually do some calculation.
My 4 year old grandson can do that.
Get real.

[Mystere]

Novakaine, on 14 February 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Just reduce the spread and I'd be satisfied.
As far as Tier Potato they need learn the same way we did.
But it's to the point I hardly even care anymore.

Which exactly is this "Tier Potato" you are referring to?

• 1 aka Yukon Gold
  
• 2 aka Purple Peruvian
  
• 3 aka Idaho Russet
  
• 4 aka Katahdin
  
• 5 aka Red Bliss

[FireStoat]

Sjorpha, on 14 February 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

They've been nerfed several times in 2017 for no reason, they weren't a problem before those nerfs so it would at least be safe to buff them back up to 2016 level.

I'm good with this, with one exception. LRM 5 launchers and SRM 4 launchers were statistically better to be used in groups over the larger launchers. I think PGI did a somewhat good thing in increasing the spread of those specific launchers so that larger LRM and SRM launchers were worth their tonnage and competitive.
To go with this, I feel Artemis should be stripped of its nerfs and put squarely back to early 2016 value, AND we have the skill tree to use for tighter grouping. In a world of laser vomit / gauss + lasers / heavy gauss ruling tier 1, I don't possibly see how this would be a bad thing.

[HammerMaster]

ROSS-128, on 14 February 2018 - 09:50 AM, said:

If your memory is so warped by nostalgia glasses that you're ending up just straight up wrong all the time, then you should probably stop relying on it and instead have the prudence to look things up.

Exercise some self-awareness by reminding yourself of how much you've forgotten, rather than charging ahead with the unwavering conviction that you must be right.

Hahhahhahhahhahahah. oK.
Just back me up.

[Mole]

I understand where Paul is coming from. We still occasionally get scrubs in here whining about how OP LRMs are. The reasons behind LRMs being such trash at higher tiers have never been a mystery to me. PGI's a bit stuck. If they make them powerful enough to be useful at T1 then T4 and under get destroyed and no new player will want to stay after logging on their first time to eat LRMAGGEDON death. This will have a negative impact on new player retention. On the other hand, what we have now is LRMs that are useless against highly skilled players. But highly skilled players are less likely to leave the game because they feel a weapon system is bad whereas noobs will certainly leave a game if they feel a weapon system is OP as hell. It's a ****** situation, but that's the situation we have.

Edited by Mole, 14 February 2018 - 10:45 AM.

[Metus regem]

Mole, on 14 February 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

I understand where Paul is coming from. We still occasionally get scrubs in here whining about how OP LRMs are. The reasons behind LRMs being such trash at higher tiers have never been a mystery to me. PGI's a bit stuck. If they make them powerful enough to be useful at T1 then T4 and under get destroyed and no new player will want to stay after logging on their first time to eat LRMAGGEDON death. This will have a negative impact on new player retention. On the other hand, what we have now is LRMs that are useless against highly skilled players. But highly skilled players are less likely to leave the game because they feel a weapon system is bad whereas noobs will certainly leave a game if they feel a weapon system is OP as hell. It's a ****** situation, but that's the situation we have.

Problem is Mole down in scrub town where I play, people already get wrecked by LRM's, because they haven't learned how to mitigate them yet... I'm one of the few that does seem to know how make them ineffective... So making them more effective against better players will likely have minimal impact against new players that already don't know how to render them nearly useless.

It's funny, as I can tell how experienced someone is on my team, based on how they react to seeing LRM's in flight... If they just stand in the open, getting pummled and whine about it, then I know they are new, if they run for hard cover (buildings/rocks) or soft cover (teammates/OpFor) then I know they've been around for a while.

Now I'm not saying I don't get hit by LRM's once in a while, but it's more on the rare side, as I don't leave myself exposed long enough for them usually...

[HammerMaster]

Mole, on 14 February 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

I understand where Paul is coming from. We still occasionally get scrubs in here whining about how OP LRMs are. The reasons behind LRMs being such trash at higher tiers have never been a mystery to me. PGI's a bit stuck. If they make them powerful enough to be useful at T1 then T4 and under get destroyed and no new player will want to stay after logging on their first time to eat LRMAGGEDON death. This will have a negative impact on new player retention. On the other hand, what we have now is LRMs that are useless against highly skilled players. But highly skilled players are less likely to leave the game because they feel a weapon system is bad whereas noobs will certainly leave a game if they feel a weapon system is OP as hell. It's a ****** situation, but that's the situation we have.

We shouldn't cater to tier 5 just as we shouldn't cater to only tier 1. The bulk of people that play at tiers 4,3,2 (play at not assigned tier since no zero sum) need to be addressed. The BULK of MWO. (The "meat and potatoes")

Edited by HammerMaster, 14 February 2018 - 11:09 AM.

[Mole]

HammerMaster, on 14 February 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

We shouldn't cater to tier 5 just as we shouldn't cater to only tier 1. The bulk of people that play at tiers 4,3,2 (play at not assigned tier since no zero sum) need to be addressed. The BULK of MWO. (The "meat and potatoes")

Funny thing is we get people from tiers 4 and 3 complaining about how LRMs are OP as well.

[Zigmund Freud]

Brain Cancer, on 13 February 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

That's because PGI can't really do much to change that, as they don't really have much capacity to fundamentally alter guided missiles. ATMs will do it as well, it's just not as obvious (and they're both built on the same code with a few numbers changed).



Lovely. So we'll "improve" LRMs by making team-mates carry equipment that may or may not be useful in any given game because, y'know, we can totally predict what our team in QP is bringing.

Meanwhile, the guy with the Gauss Rifle doesn't care what you bring, his guns don't care about anything but a target.

Extra equipment shouldn't be part of the baseline- it's a tonnage/space/sometimes heat penalty that would otherwise go towards other things and are situationally beneficial to boot. NARC + LRM should be better than average, not "this is a trash weapon BUT if I sacrifice another missile hardpoint and 4+ tons, I can make it OK!".

You didn't quote the part the part about buffing within line of sight spread and overall damage. This is a baseline - buffed LOS damage and reduced over-the-hill damage. Extra equipment let you do this buffed damage over the hill too, but only if teamwork. Yea, this is not a 100% successful idea for QP, but so is bringing LRMs with a chance of getting tunnel map or bringing lasvomit to satan's butth.. terra terma.

[Lugin]

Luminis, on 14 February 2018 - 01:45 AM, said:

Does that include targeting data (loadout etc) and retaining lock on a target that breaks LoS?

The status (damage state and loadout) of any revealed unit is public knowledge anyway.

edit- grammar

Sorry it took so long to reply, had to sleep.

Edited by Lugin, 14 February 2018 - 11:44 AM.

[Zigmund Freud]

Mole, on 14 February 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Funny thing is we get people from tiers 4 and 3 complaining about how LRMs are OP as well.

Cause this tiers system is also garbage, but that's whole different discussion.

[Kin3ticX]

It is expected as you play that you move on from LRMs to other weapons. You guys are too wound up in "mah battletek" thinking you have to include LRMs for the sake of LRMs themselves. When you build a mech, you don't sit there and go "how do I put a token LRM launcher on this to round it out?". Its never going to happen unless you are stuck in your own bubble and just like getting wrecked.

So basically, a new player can find out that players in tier 4 and 5 just stand there and take LRMs and are just so out of position they ask for it. However, once you climb up though LRM happy hunting grounds, eventually the game will stop giving good yields. Its expected players have learned something or experimented with something else besides hold lox pl0x. Its called journey.

Now, you can also just decide to boat LRMs or run bracket builds forever, but don't expect amazing things and don't come to the forums expecting PGI to make it work for you.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 14 February 2018 - 11:45 AM.

[HammerMaster]

Kin3ticX, on 14 February 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

It is expected as you play that you move on from LRMs to other weapons. You guys are too wound up in "mah battletek" thinking you have to include LRMs for the sake of LRMs themselves. When you build a mech, you don't sit there and go "how do I put a token LRM launcher on this to round it out?". Its never going to happen unless you are stuck in your own bubble and just like getting wrecked.

So basically, a new player can find out that players in tier 4 and 5 just stand there and take LRMs and are just so out of position they ask for it. However, once you climb up though LRM happy hunting grounds, eventually the game will stop giving good yields. Its expected players have learned something or experimented with something else besides hold lox pl0x. Its called journey.

Now, you can also just decide to boat LRMs or run bracket builds forever, but don't expect amazing things and don't come to the forums expecting PGI to make it work for you.

Rubbish.

[Khobai]

Quote

I understand where Paul is coming from.

Theres really no justification where paul is coming from. Leaving entire category of weapons obsolete because youre too afraid to even try to fix them is total crap.

Ive explained how to improve them without making them broken in T4-T5. Sure they still wont be a top tier weapon, but theyll be better than they are now.

1) slower cooldown and higher damage per missile

2) higher velocity but also weaken indirect fire without tag/narc

3) transition LRMs into more of a utility role by figuring out how to add different ammo types (thunder LRMs as an example).

4) spotters should get credited 50% of the damage from indirect LRMs. TAG/NARC should have additional applications so theyre useful even when theres no LRM boats to help encourage their use more.

Edited by Khobai, 14 February 2018 - 12:04 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Khobai, on 14 February 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

"too afraid"

Though I don't 100% agree with your suggested changes. The reason is the same. It needs an overhaul. Hes not doing it. It then needs to be addressed. He's not doing. The reason. The same.

Fear.

Edited by HammerMaster, 14 February 2018 - 12:06 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

HammerMaster, on 14 February 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

Rubbish.

Put down the TRO and open to other ideas. Try to look at the game from outside the battletech lore purist bubble

heres some suggestions

[HammerMaster]

Kin3ticX, on 14 February 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

Put down the TRO and open to other ideas. Try to look at the game from outside the battletech lore purist bubble

Stop trying to make the LRM into a "noob tube".

I do like Street FIghter. As in only Street Fighter II Turbo Championship Edition.

Edited by HammerMaster, 14 February 2018 - 12:10 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

HammerMaster, on 14 February 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

Stop trying to make the LRM into a "noob tube".

I do like Street FIghter. As in only Street Fighter II Turbo Championship Edition.

Back in closed beta, we were just propping up on a hill and spamming LRMs. Direct fire mechs were getting wrecked. This would make the game upside down and worse than it is now.

You cant have the mindless buttonmash abilities trumping things that take a little more skill to make work.


You know what though, go ahead and somehow get PGI to buff LRMs, I want to see this PR storm. Though, I doubt that they would do the stuff you guys are asking for like 2x velocity...lel.


If we ever get back to the LRM meta from closed beta, I will gladly spam LRMs with you, journey be damned. Why hone direct fire skills when we can just point our pippers roughly at the enemy and spam homing missiles?

Edited by Kin3ticX, 14 February 2018 - 12:19 PM.

[Grus]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 February 2018 - 02:17 PM, said:

So a weapon system that is twice the weight will actually be better? *gasp* The horror!

ahh the weight straw man again... Well stop making them out of lead and you won't have that problem!

[HammerMaster]

Kin3ticX, on 14 February 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Back in closed beta, we were just propping up on a hill and spamming LRMs. Direct fire mechs were getting wrecked. This would make the game upside down and worse than it is now.

You cant have the mindless buttonmash abilities trumping things that take a little more skill to make work.


You know what though, go ahead and somehow get PGI to buff LRMs, I want to see this PR storm. Though, I doubt that they would do the stuff you guys are asking for like 2x velocity...lel.


If we ever get back to the LRM meta from closed beta, I will gladly spam LRMs with you, journey be damned. Why hone direct fire skills when we can just point our pippers roughly at the enemy and spam homing missiles?

Not what I'm advocating sir. They need a rework. Not a blind buff.

Edited by HammerMaster, 14 February 2018 - 12:31 PM.