17 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Decided I'd play mostly group queue for this season running in 3-4 man groups with a few friends on. Group queue itself is very receptive to calls made on the comms, so even when my team is small I still am effectively drop calling 12 people. People respond to flank calls quickly, focus fire calls are pretty effective, people take good positions when asked to move into them, its very refreshing compared to quickplay.

Mid sized groups seem to be the best for getting good personal results. Its not a full sized 12 man team, so you aren't heavily restricted in what mechs you can bring and you also aren't fully coordinated and unable to put up high scores due to there being no slack to carry. Though you still have enough manpower to get things done to push the win into your favor if you (or someone else) takes the lead and makes calls.

One of the mechs I've been using has moved to a win ratio above 3, another one has KD above 4. When you have some backup you can really go in for the kills or just take an area over without a problem.


It would be neato to be able to see stats and have categories for solo and group, then have the group stats also split by group size, so we could see which size group ends up being the most optimal balance. Just wondering, do you guys working on the Jarl's List have any way to get something like that or does PGI's database not make the distinction in anywhere public?

[El Bandito]

Separating SQ and GQ stats is indeed nice, as I think SQ stats are more accurate on the skill level of the player, while GQ tells more about the competency of the players' unit.

[Tarl Cabot]

PGI published stats do not make any distinction between Solo and Group.

[Gas Guzzler]

Average match score benefits from solo queue, but KDR and WLR get help from group queue if you group with good players.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 February 2018 - 04:50 PM, said:

Average match score benefits from solo queue, but KDR and WLR get help from group queue if you group with good players.

Average match score can get a pretty good boost from group queue since you're winning much more often, so your match score's already higher off the bat, ontop of having a few good players with you so you can play aggressively without much worry in each match. Having a team of 11 people you have to carry hard can be pretty taxing, sometimes you just don't have the time to rack up nice scores in solo queue.

[sharknoise]

If a noticeable part of players gets high WLR in group queue, this also means that a sizable part keeps losing to the first. So the thread title must be very wrong for this second section of playerbase. I don't play group queue at all so I may be missing something, but still if I were you I would wonder who these people on the losing end are.

[Curccu]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 14 February 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

Average match score can get a pretty good boost from group queue since you're winning much more often, so your match score's already higher off the bat, ontop of having a few good players with you so you can play aggressively without much worry in each match. Having a team of 11 people you have to carry hard can be pretty taxing, sometimes you just don't have the time to rack up nice scores in solo queue.

I have to agree with Gas Guzzler on this, GQ buffs KD and WL but with group of good players there isn't that much time to do damage because enemies get eliminated faster.

[Arend II]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 February 2018 - 04:50 PM, said:

Average match score benefits from solo queue, but KDR and WLR get help from group queue if you group with good players.

Yeah a good example are the last 2 Month with my my 2 Acounts, on the Arend II i usually played in Group, therefore W/L and K/D went up and Avg. MS went down, while on Arend i usually played solo and the opposite was the case!

[Khobai]

solo and group stats should definitely be separate. its misleading to have them combined together.

Quote

Separating SQ and GQ stats is indeed nice, as I think SQ stats are more accurate on the skill level of the player, while GQ tells more about the competency of the players' unit.

I agree SQ stats are more accurate than GQ stats for determining individual player skill. However the accuracy of both suffers from not having a proper matchmaker. There's too many matches that are just one-sided from the start and that skews the stats considerably.

Although if solaris has a working ELO matchmaker it will likely be the most accurate gauge of player skill. Since it will not only match you up against opponents of similar skill but also against mechs in the same division.

[Scyther]

Tack on to your title "if you can play regularly with some decent players in your 3-4 man and at least one of you is a capable drop caller". Group queue itself doesn't do much for your stats if you aren't taking advantage of its' differences.

Edit: I am absolutely not a stat-hound but I take issue with Khobai's (and others) belief that an uneven MM skews personal stats. In the short run, yes. Once those stats cover 1,000 or more matches however, good/bad MM applies the same to everyone and personal stats reflect personal performance.

That makes various assumptions however, which too many of the stat-hounds feel is implicit in game participation.

The person who plays 1,000 matches in his best mechs, with his best gear and filled skill trees, and blows CB on consumables to win/boost stats, who plays during time slots that are more likely to give decent results and not, say, primarily during events when game play is distorted by event populations and event requirements, is going to have stats that reflect his best playing potential.

The person who plays primarily the mechs he just bought, to level them, at any time, is spending his CBills on new gear and not consumables, and who typically only plays when there is an event on or occasionally, and who switches between various mechs/classes/weapon systems because he is levelling 3 at once or doing event requirements (or just bored), is going to reflect a very different set of match stats. Even when those 2 players are the same person.

Edited by MadBadger, 15 February 2018 - 06:56 AM.

[CFC Conky]

MadBadger, on 15 February 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

...

The person who plays primarily the mechs he just bought, to level them, at any time, is spending his CBills on new gear and not consumables, and who typically only plays when there is an event on or occasionally, and who switches between various mechs/classes/weapon systems because he is levelling 3 at once or doing event requirements (or just bored), is going to reflect a very different set of match stats.

...

That pretty much describes me to a T.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Dago Red]

Funny I do quite a bit better in solo que the vast majority of the time.


Must depend on the quality of the teammates available.

[Gas Guzzler]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 14 February 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

Average match score can get a pretty good boost from group queue since you're winning much more often, so your match score's already higher off the bat, ontop of having a few good players with you so you can play aggressively without much worry in each match. Having a team of 11 people you have to carry hard can be pretty taxing, sometimes you just don't have the time to rack up nice scores in solo queue.

Um this is inherently false. Solo queue carrying means you rack up 800-1000 damage on the reg. In the group queue when you are to contend with teammates that also know how to lay on the hurt, you don't have enough time to rack up that damage. I've also noticed that if this is happening it helps to bring a more DPS centric build rather than one that is hot and has to cool down a lot.

I've also noticed that slower mechs struggle a little more in group queue, unless it's actually a balanced fight, which lets be real is less than 10% of the time.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 February 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

Um this is inherently false. Solo queue carrying means you rack up 800-1000 damage on the reg. In the group queue when you are to contend with teammates that also know how to lay on the hurt, you don't have enough time to rack up that damage. I've also noticed that if this is happening it helps to bring a more DPS centric build rather than one that is hot and has to cool down a lot.

I've also noticed that slower mechs struggle a little more in group queue, unless it's actually a balanced fight, which lets be real is less than 10% of the time.

I've been finding that group queue is great for slow mechs. My Annihilator has been doing great in group queue. In group queue teams really know how to support an assault mech, and by having multiple Annihilators on your team an advantage can be made just from total team health advantage when it takes at least 3 Hellbringer tier alphas to take me down directly to CT. A lot of teams just crumble to that.

I do find that DPS does work out pretty well in group queue too (further helping my Anni). Do note that I'm talking about just a 2-4 man sized team though, not a big team full of players where *everyone* knows how to efficiently kill the enemy. When you're with the small squad you get the advantage of better team cohesion than solo queue while also still having slack to carry since not everyone on the team is top 10% players.

If I had the full 12 man going then we'd probably be rushing out in things that hit 100+kph (that is if we aren't just out goofing off with a full team of LRM boats or something).

[Mister Glitchdragon]

The amount of biased, speculative, and anecdotal evidence on display here is staggering. Ironic, considering how many here insist that "stats don't lie."

The fact is that until we get leaderboards that distinguish between statistics gathered in solo play from statistics gathered in group play, any attempt to "prove" one way or the other is a self-serving joke.

I want to know who is opposed to the distinction between group stats and solo stats? What are you afraid of?

[Gas Guzzler]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 15 February 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

Do note that I'm talking about just a 2-4 man sized team though, not a big team full of players where *everyone* knows how to efficiently kill the enemy. When you're with the small squad you get the advantage of better team cohesion than solo queue while also still having slack to carry since not everyone on the team is top 10% players.

Okay maybe. I just tend to not get the slow paced matches that I like (because... I like poke Assault mechs and harvesting 1000 damage). And I see what you are saying about small group, but its also common to be in a small group, group with another small group of great players, while the other team has a bunch of people you don't recognize and then its just over so fast that if you are in a slow mech you miss out on most of the action.

I don't know, I have found solo queue to be MUCH more conducive to repeated high damage, high match score games. And then if you group with certain teams that like to jump in small fast brawly mechs (read: Not Gas Guzzler's style, at all), then everybody ends the match with like 300-500 damage and its a stomp. That's why when I group with teams like that, I have watched my WLR just skyrocket while my match score crumbles.

Mister Glitchdragon, on 15 February 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

The amount of biased, speculative, and anecdotal evidence on display here is staggering. Ironic, considering how many here insist that "stats don't lie."

The fact is that until we get leaderboards that distinguish between statistics gathered in solo play from statistics gathered in group play, any attempt to "prove" one way or the other is a self-serving joke.

I want to know who is opposed to the distinction between group stats and solo stats? What are you afraid of?

I am not afraid of that distinction at all. I'm just going off of what my stats do when I run in solo queue vs group queue. IT doesn't ALWAYs go down in group queue, but my mech choice definitely plays less of a role in how my stats are when I do solo queue, I'll put it that way. Admittedly, I haven't been doing as much group queue lately, so I could be wrong.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 15 February 2018 - 10:56 AM.

[Kubernetes]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 15 February 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

The amount of biased, speculative, and anecdotal evidence on display here is staggering. Ironic, considering how many here insist that "stats don't lie."

The fact is that until we get leaderboards that distinguish between statistics gathered in solo play from statistics gathered in group play, any attempt to "prove" one way or the other is a self-serving joke.

I want to know who is opposed to the distinction between group stats and solo stats? What are you afraid of?

Fail. No one in this thread has expressed opposition to separate stats. People are just debating how SQ and GQ stats differ for individual players.

I rarely play GQ but I agree with Gas Guzzler that KDR and WLR go up whereas match score goes down. I struggle to get 400-500 damage in group, but I rarely die or lose.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Kubernetes, on 15 February 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

No one in this thread has expressed opposition to separate stats.

https://mwomercs.com...78#entry6028478
Here's the poll. "Money where your mouth is" and all of that. I'll expect to see all of you enthusiastically voting "Yes," then...