54 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

So I was just looking Feb 20 Patch Notes:

Mechs with Sub 250-Engine cap will finally have their heat-dissipation quirk fixed. I actually perform on them just fine, i fear that this means there's going to be nerfs.

Trial Mechs updated, but no new trial mechs.

Heavy and Assault torso-speed nodes buff, that's nice. Of course people would probably still pick firepower tree.

Also the Clan Small Lasers were getting buffed? Personally I don't mind this, but the Clan Small Lasers felt fine in the first place.

Streaks will now target the Torso more than legs. Hmm is this a buff or a nerf? Now it's less anti-light, buuut then it always felt that it was balanced more against light than heavies, now it does those less better. Shouldn't this needed some more adjustments than a simple tweak?

MRM30 got extra heat.

There's Victor, Rifleman, and Jagermech quirks being universal, and then there's Thanatos getting adjustments to get more armor quirks.

So far, this patch gave a lot of love, but no ballistic weapons adjustment. Where the hell is that RAC2 buff? xD

And where are the Civil-War weapon model updates?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 February 2018 - 05:15 PM.

[raidarr]

I think streaks got a clear nerf. Already, using them over regular SRMs against anything big I would consider to be a very poor idea. At least beforehand, streaks had a niche against lights. Spreading the damage even further renders them even less effective, and almost worthless overall, especially when regular SRMs tend to actually hit in a fair cluster.

Basically, streaks just lost their niche.

[An Innocent Urbie]

Quickdraw IV 4 will be the one devastated by the increased heat of MRM 30

[Valyknir]

Lentulus Batiatus, on 16 February 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

I think streaks got a clear nerf. Already, using them over regular SRMs against anything big I would consider to be a very poor idea. At least beforehand, streaks had a niche against lights. Spreading the damage even further renders them even less effective, and almost worthless overall, especially when regular SRMs tend to actually hit in a fair cluster.

Basically, streaks just lost their niche.

I doubt we'll notice much of a difference. Light mechs will go down just as fast with more streaks hitting their torsos. Streaks biggest advantage against lights is the fact that they don't miss, while lights can't afford to take any damage.

Edited by Valyknir, 16 February 2018 - 06:04 PM.

[An Innocent Urbie]

Valyknir, on 16 February 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

I doubt we'll notice much of a difference. Light mechs will go down just as fast with more streaks hitting their torsos. Streaks biggest advantage against lights is the fact that they don't miss, while lights can't afford to take any damage.

HAHAHAHA clearly you have not seen the torso of an Urbie nor Wolfhound

Edited by An Innocent Urbie, 16 February 2018 - 06:05 PM.

[visionGT4]

Quote

Clam High Command

The one exception to this is the Clan ER Small Laser. This weapon historically functions more like an IS standard Medium Laser for half the tonnage instead of any direct comparison to the rest of the small laser family. While we are not going to remove this property of the weapon at this time, we will be bringing the cooldown of the weapon up to match the IS Standard Medium Laser

"easy mode is how we sell mech packs"

[Y E O N N E]

Heat Dissipation Quirk: YAAAAAAAAAY!

MRM nerf: probably inconsequential.

cERSL nerf: just...why? In what universe was this weapon over-performing?

Micro, SPL, and isSL, heat buffs: this isn't going to do anything; running hot is not at all their problem; having trivial damage output is and, frankly, the isERSL also has this problem. Even with the nerf, the cERSL is dealing 1.09 DPS to the piddly 0.92 on the isERSL, and the cERSL isn't breaking anything without that nerf.

Streaks: this is dumb. Ah, yes, just what we need: more torso-homing weapons. RIP Lights with isXLs. You want torso homing? Take the ATMs.

Rifleman and Jager buffs: Fly, my pretties!

Thanatos armor buff: <insertstarcraftmeme.gif>

[Valyknir]

An Innocent Urbie, on 16 February 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

HAHAHAHA clearly you have not seen the torso of an Urbie nor Wolfhound

Yes, there are exceptions. Heavily quirked exceptions. Streaks should perform better against both of those mechs after this patch.

[Khobai]

So streaks are just going to crush ISXL mediums now instead of lights?

clan mediums are probably safe because CXL

Edited by Khobai, 16 February 2018 - 06:23 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 16 February 2018 - 06:20 PM, said:

So streaks are just going to crush mediums now instead of lights?

Pretty sure that certain lights still have low torso armor, say a Locust. Not aiming the legs would just not pin them down, but otherwise focuses a lot of damage with their vulnerable XL engines.

[Khobai]

Quote

Pretty sure that certain lights still have low torso armor, say a Locust. Not aiming the legs would just not pin them down, but otherwise focuses a lot of damage with their vulnerable XL engines.

yeah im not sure if its really a nerf for lights or a very insignificant buff.

but its definitely gonna be a nerf for mediums

maybe theyll make ISXL survive side torso blowout, then this would make sense

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 16 February 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

yeah im not sure if its really a nerf for lights or a very insignificant buff.

but its definitely gonna be a nerf for mediums

maybe theyll make ISXL survive side torso blowout, then this would make sense

So what? It's a nerf to heavies and assaults too if that's the case, cause streaks are finally focusing on the right parts.

[Y E O N N E]

The6thMessenger, on 16 February 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

So what? It's a nerf to heavies and assaults too if that's the case, cause streaks are finally focusing on the right parts.

WTB: ATMs

[Khobai]

Quote

So what? It's a nerf to heavies and assaults too if that's the case, cause streaks are finally focusing on the right parts.

not really. heavies and assaults have more armor than mediums.

and they rely less on ISXL engines

[FupDup]

Speaking of torso homing, I remember the dark days when the IS SSRM2 was literally the best missile weapon in the game. Not even kidding. Of course back then it was a pure CT-seeker rather than a general torso seeker, but then again we've had a lot of power creep with bigger launchers, more hardpoints, etc.

They still keep beating around the bush instead of finally dealing with the core problem of Streaks: The auto-aim mechanic itself is the root of all SSRM problems and will continue to be the root of all the SSRM problems (also Lurms and now ATMs but I digress). I said this way back in 2012 during the reign of the Craven 3L and it's still relevant today.



Also, I seriously don't know why the eff they keep nerfing the CERSL time and time again. It's right up there with the AC/2 as one of the most frequently nerfed weapons in the game (in terms of how many times it has shown up in the patch notes).

Edited by FupDup, 16 February 2018 - 06:54 PM.

[dario03]

Valyknir, on 16 February 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

I doubt we'll notice much of a difference. Light mechs will go down just as fast with more streaks hitting their torsos. Streaks biggest advantage against lights is the fact that they don't miss, while lights can't afford to take any damage.

This.

I like that they are trying to balance streaks across the weight classes (been asking for that forever). However I don't think this change will do it. This change doesn't address the issue of the auto aim streaks ignoring the major defensive strength of a brawling light which is being harder to hit. It also doesn't change the amount of damage that streaks do, which can be a lot. ~72 damage slamming into a light mech is a lot, no matter where it hits.

This very well could end up being a bad thing for lights since-
The pro and cons of this might just cancel out and make streaks no less as effective against lights.
However streaks are getting a buff against all other mechs so we will likely see more streaks in game.
And even though streaks are buffed vs bigger mechs, those streak mechs will probably still primary light mechs.

So effectively it might be a nerf against lights because more mechs will have streaks and they are not nerfed vs lights, just buffed vs bigger mechs. They might even be buffed vs ISXL lights. Hopefully I'm wrong, will have to see but thats what I'm thinking.

Hopefully if this does end up being a nerf for lights they catch it pretty quick and make some more changes soon. It is nice seeing some effort put toward helping the little guy
If so, to really fix the issue I would suggest

-Streak tracking based on target's weight (bigger mechs get hit more in torsos, smaller mechs more spread).
-Lower damage/alpha of streaks. Even if cooldown was buffed so that dps is the same, a lower alpha would give you more time to disengage and would require more peaking from streak mechs that are getting locks outside of LOS.

If we could get both of these then I would lower not just the alpha but also the dps. This would nerf streaks vs lights while buffing them vs bigger mechs since a tighter spread against bigger mechs would mean more effective damage even though its less total damage. I think this is what would be needed in order to actually balance the weapon vs the classes. If we can't get the tracking based on target's weight then i would at least nerf the alpha. Actually I would probably just lower the alpha and dps either way, but by different amounts if we got tracking by weight or not.

Edited by dario03, 16 February 2018 - 09:13 PM.

[El Bandito]

An Innocent Urbie, on 16 February 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

Quickdraw IV 4 will be the one devastated by the increased heat of MRM 30

It's just half point of heat per MRM30. Not gonna be that noticeable.

[El Bandito]

Lentulus Batiatus, on 16 February 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

I think streaks got a clear nerf. Already, using them over regular SRMs against anything big I would consider to be a very poor idea. At least beforehand, streaks had a niche against lights. Spreading the damage even further renders them even less effective, and almost worthless overall, especially when regular SRMs tend to actually hit in a fair cluster.

Basically, streaks just lost their niche.

Don't worry about it until PGI posts the actual numbers. Cause they might have changed only 2% value, for all we know.

[IllCaesar]

An Innocent Urbie, on 16 February 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

HAHAHAHA clearly you have not seen the torso of an Urbie nor Wolfhound

You mean a light mech that functions the least like a light mech out of all of them with insane armour quirks because its a joke mech?

The Wolfhound is a bit sturdier because of its quirks, yes, but with streaks being focused more on the torso instead of spread around it will be more beneficial to some builds when encountering a Wolfhound.

Any light goes down when it torso goes out. You might even actually use a bit less ammo to take them out this way but its probably not much of a difference overall for most. What this hurts the most are, as others have already stated, XL mediums. And just when I thought that it was safe to take out my Shadowhawks and Vindicators...

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 16 February 2018 - 06:46 PM, said:

not really. heavies and assaults have more armor than mediums.

and they rely less on ISXL engines

Yeah, but mediums and Lights have more armor in torso than legs, so it's a nerf right? I think you're missing the degrees of impact.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 February 2018 - 08:48 PM.