54 replies to this topic

[lazorbeamz]

Clan small lasers are kinda good because they give you LOTS of damage per ton of weight.

Im using them on EBJ with 2 cUAC10 and 6 C ER SML

[PocketYoda]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 February 2018 - 06:12 PM, said:

Heat Dissipation Quirk: YAAAAAAAAAY!

MRM nerf: probably inconsequential.

cERSL nerf: just...why? In what universe was this weapon over-performing?

Micro, SPL, and isSL, heat buffs: this isn't going to do anything; running hot is not at all their problem; having trivial damage output is and, frankly, the isERSL also has this problem. Even with the nerf, the cERSL is dealing 1.09 DPS to the piddly 0.92 on the isERSL, and the cERSL isn't breaking anything without that nerf.

Streaks: this is dumb. Ah, yes, just what we need: more torso-homing weapons. RIP Lights with isXLs. You want torso homing? Take the ATMs.

Rifleman and Jager buffs: Fly, my pretties!

Thanatos armor buff: <insertstarcraftmeme.gif>

Actually heat and damage is pointless when the range of all of them is garbage.. If you need to be in slappy face mode to use them you'll already be dead.. except maybe lights..

[Xetelian]

I think the Streak change is going to be devastating to scouting mode.

We don't yet know how much the streaks will be targeting the ST but HMN with 6-8 streak weapons will be a lot more of a challenge to overcome if they apply a lot of their damage to the ST of an IS medium mech.


Lasers don't need all these nerfs in my opinion. The constant nerfing of other weapons have made them what they are. Roll back the UAC and SRM nerfs for a start, lower the heat on the SRMs and other autocannons and raise their DPS.


I said when PPFLD was the biggest concern that they would push everyone to lasers, if the search functioned on this forum and I could find those old posts I would back this up with quotes. Now they have Heavy lasers and have repeatedly nerfed everything else, what can you possibly draw as the reason for all the laser vomit?


The engine desync effectively killed brawling for a lot of mechs which also helped foster the climate we have.


I have not seen the metrics PGI is using for balance. I don't know when they start and how often they update the window of time they're looking at. However I feel like they do a lot of dartboard balancing as it is often stated around here.


They can't be looking very closely at metrics directly related to the engine desync or they would see how badly they've screwed over the Atlas and many other assaults. Why in gods name did they use the DWF as a baseline instead of a 350 rated engine Atlas? They could have just nerfed the twist speed of the KDK 3 directly instead of making it their job to micro-adjust 80+ chassis individually. Something they've done a horrible job with so far.


4% nodes aren't going to make a difference to any of the mechs that can't twist already. That is just how percentages work.




Unfunning of MWO, huge drastic changes that disrupt the ecosystem, months of metrics that they say don't reflect what we're all seeing and micro-adjustments over long periods of time.

Edited by Xetelian, 19 February 2018 - 01:25 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

4% nodes aren't going to make a difference to any of the mechs that can't twist already. That is how just how percentages work.

the problem is you still have to fill out half the mobility tree just to unlock all 5 torso twist nodes

they couldve doubled them to 7% and they still wouldnt be worth it because of all the useless prerequisite skills

spending 14 points on mostly useless prerequisite skills just to make your 100 ton mech turn like a 95 ton mech instead is dumb.

they needed to buff ALL mobility skills for assaults. not just torso twist speed.

and quite frankly it would probably be easier just to significantly buff the baseline agility of ALL 90+ assaults... so the percentage increases in the skill tree would actually matter.

Edited by Khobai, 19 February 2018 - 01:52 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Khobai, on 16 February 2018 - 06:20 PM, said:

So streaks are just going to crush ISXL mediums now instead of lights?

clan mediums are probably safe because CXL

Yup LoL

The Uziel still didn't get ST Armour Quirks

I seem to remember streaks were spread all over the place because they were to powerful.

Sure this isn't CT only, but I think the potatoes will be making voodoo dolls of our balance over lords by the end of the week, and maybe even some not so potato

I didn't even buy popcorn at the store this week either

[Xetelian]

Khobai, on 19 February 2018 - 01:18 AM, said:

the problem is you still have to fill out half the mobility tree just to unlock all 5 torso twist nodes

they couldve doubled them to 7% and they still wouldnt be worth it because of all the useless prerequisite skills

spending 14 points on mostly useless prerequisite skills just to make your 100 ton mech turn like a 95 ton mech instead is dumb.

they needed to buff ALL mobility skills for assaults. not just torso twist speed.

and quite frankly it would probably be easier just to significantly buff the baseline agility of ALL assaults... so the percentage increases in the skill tree would actually matter.

I'm not arguing against what you're saying, I just wanted to emphasize that it takes a 50% boost (rounding up on the Atlas torso speed to an even 60) to get an Atlas up to the twisting of a Cyclops. So a 35% boost would still be too little.

[The6thMessenger]

Cathy, on 19 February 2018 - 01:34 AM, said:

Yup LoL

...

I seem to remember streaks were spread all over the place because they were to powerful.

Sure this isn't CT only, but I think the potatoes will be making voodoo dolls of our balance over lords by the end of the week, and maybe even some not so potato

I'm still flabbergasted with that statement of his. (Khobai's), Lights still have less torso armor than mediums, and would still kill them in a large volley even moreso than a medium, streaks only ever helped them to be pinned down so accurate fire to their torso is easier (in my experience), so I fail to see how it "crush(es) ISXL mediums now instead of lights".

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 February 2018 - 02:06 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I'm still flabbergasted with that statement of his. (Khobai's), Lights still have less torso armor than mediums, and would still kill them in a large volley even more than a medium, streaks only ever helped them to be pinned down so accurate fire to their torso is easier (in my experience), so I fail to see how it "crush(es) ISXL mediums now instead of lights".

my reasoning is that its easier for a light to protect their torso than their leg. because their arms can block some of the streaks.

so its conceivably still a buff for ISXL lights.

and a nerf for ISXL mediums

Edited by Khobai, 19 February 2018 - 02:11 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 19 February 2018 - 02:07 AM, said:

my reasoning was that its easier for a light to protect their torso than their leg. because their arms can block the streaks.

I'm pretty sure that mediums also have arms to do that. And if it's about hitboxes, there are humanoid and non-humanoid like bushwacker, jenner, and locusts, with arms less defined and is rather small for arm-shielding.

Sure lights have a more vulnerable leg than mediums, but if the mediums' torso (and arms) couldn't handle the crushing SSRM volleys, how well would a less-armored mech of the same volley? So yeah, no, your line of reasoning is wrong -- if anything it just makes it so that lights are less frequently legged that are their usual undoing.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 February 2018 - 02:14 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I'm pretty sure that mediums also have arms to do that. And if it's about hitboxes, there are humanoid and non-humanoid like bushwacker, jenner, and locusts, with arms less defined and is rather small for arm-shielding.

So yeah, no, your line of reasoning is wrong.

my line of reasoning is still right

since mediums care far less about getting hit in the legs than lights do

so streaks having less of a bias towards hitting a medium's legs and more of a bias towards hitting their arms/side torso is a nerf for mediums

Edited by Khobai, 19 February 2018 - 02:14 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 19 February 2018 - 02:13 AM, said:

my line of reasoning is still right

since mediums care far less about getting hit in the legs than lights do

so streaks having less of a bias towards hitting a medium's legs and more of a bias towards hitting their arms/side torso is a nerf for mediums

"So streaks are just going to crush ISXL mediums now instead of lights"

"its easier for a light to protect their torso than their leg. because their arms can block the streaks."

Nope, it's not right. Declaring that ISXL mediums are crushed by streaks INSTEAD of lights, means that Lights are spared from the streaks -- that is how "instead" works. Because: "they can protect their torso with their arms, than protect their legs with their arms" -- as if Mediums doesn't even have arms too. Even if there's more bias in going to medium torso, that still does not absolve the lights of the same fate.

Sure, it's a bit more effective for mediums, since lights are still pretty vulnerable to it. But "instead" doesn't come close. Even if it's a "buff" to lights, this does not mean that they have it better than the mediums in terms of incoming damage.

No, your line of reasoning is still wrong. "Instead" is just wrong.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 February 2018 - 02:29 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Nope, it's not right. Declaring that ISXL mediums are crushed by streaks INSTEAD of lights, means that Lights are spared from the streaks

lights are being spared more from streaks

less hits to the legs, more to the arms is helping lights

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 19 February 2018 - 02:33 AM, said:

lights are being spared more from streaks

less hits to the legs, more to the arms is helping lights

Spared more from their original vulnerability as point of reference.

Versus mediums however? Not really. Ask yourself this, if a medium couldn't survive a volley of SSRMs -- say 36 SSRMs, how can a light which has less armor?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 February 2018 - 02:39 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Spared more from their original vulnerability as point of reference.

Versus mediums however? Not really.

yes really

lights getting hit less in the legs and more in the arms/STs is better for lights

mediums getting hit less in the legs and more in the arms/STs is worse for mediums

will streaks kill mediums faster than lights? nope. but the streak change still more negatively impacts mediums than lights

its a nerf for mediums. theres no other way to look at it. yes I probably overexaggerated the nerf, but thats what I do

although its really only going to affect scout mode

Edited by Khobai, 19 February 2018 - 02:43 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 19 February 2018 - 02:38 AM, said:

yes really

lights getting hit less in the legs and more in the arms/STs is better for lights

mediums getting hit less in the legs and more in the arms/STs is worse for mediums

will streaks kill mediums faster than lights? nope. but the streak change still more negatively impacts mediums than lights

its a nerf for mediums. theres no other way to look at it. yes I probably overexaggerated the nerf, but thats what I do

although its really only going to affect scout mode

No, Lights are only more likely to survive from their previous vulnerability. With competing vulnerability with mediums, no they don't have it better. It's not about the amount of change to judge it whether if it's a buff or a nerf of something, it's about the impact of the change. I never argued that it's not a nerf for mediums.

"Spared more from their original vulnerability as point of reference.

Versus mediums however? Not really."

What i mean is new light vulnerability vs new medium vulnerability, which you are implying with your statement.

Even if it's a "nerf for mediums" it does not crush ISXL mediums instead of lights, it just "crushes ISXL mediums as well", do you even know what "instead" means?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 February 2018 - 02:54 AM.