27 replies to this topic

[l33tworks]

This mech has felt incomplete to me me since day 1 due to ammo limitations and heatsink requirements. Your always too low on tonnage or ammo no matter how you build. Especially the 1 variant, it could really do with either a magazine capacity quirk to boost the ammo count... if you take 12 machine guns you can hardly take any ammo. If you take less than 12 theres no point having the piranha existing.

OR

how about give it the ability to be able to take 1 less mandatory heat sink! So 2 instead of 3. Then you can pack on another ton of ammo.

Edited by l33tworks, 24 February 2018 - 02:03 PM.

[Grus]

@topic thats the balancing factor..

l33tworks, on 24 February 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

how about give it the ability to be able to take 1 less mandatory heat sink! So 2 instead of 3. Then you can pack on another ton of ammo.

Can't due to *picks up lore hammer* the base rules of battletech *puts lore hammer down* every mech requires at lest 10 HS to run the Fusion core and associated systems.

l33tworks, on 24 February 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

This mech has felt incomplete to me me since day 1 due to ammo limitations and heatsink requirements. Your always too low on tonnage or ammo no matter how you build. Especially the 1 variant, it could really do with either a magazine capacity quirk to boost the ammo count... if you take 12 machine guns you can hardly take any ammo. If you take less than 12 theres no point having the piranha existing.

Trigger control will help with ammo consumption.

Edited by Grus, 24 February 2018 - 02:12 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

It's not big of a limitation 4 and half tons of ammo with max engine and stripped arms is more than enough to kill six mechs back to to back before running dry.

If you feeling like your low on ammo drop the engine a bit to get a extra ton of ammo in.

[FupDup]

The PIR-1 variant has an absurd amount of heatless DPS, not just "for its size" but for any size period. Trying to buff it while keeping its crazy firepower is going to end badly.

[Khobai]

besides, piranha needs survivability buffs, not firepower buffs

rather than removing the 10 heatsink requirement and freeing up more tonnage for weapons (bad)

they need to give the piranha some structure quirks so it doesnt die instantly (good)

"but waa waa locust"

give the locust better structure quirks too while youre at it. it also needs them.

and make ISXL survive side torso blowout. makes no sense why ISXL is still completely terrible.

now that streaks home in on side torsos more, it makes more sense than ever to change ISXL.

Edited by Khobai, 24 February 2018 - 02:21 PM.

[Spheroid]

The Piranha is great. The firepower brought at only twenty tons is insane. Sounds like a trigger discipline problem.

[Grus]

Khobai, on 24 February 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

besides, piranha needs survivability buffs, not firepower buffs

rather than removing the 10 heatsink requirement and freeing up more tonnage for weapons (bad)

they need to give the piranha some structure quirks so it doesnt die instantly (good)

"but waa waa locust"

give the locust better structure quirks too while youre at it. it also needs them.

and make ISXL survive side torso blowout. makes no sense why ISXL is still completely terrible.

now that streaks home in on side torsos more, it makes more sense than ever to change ISXL.

*lorehamer*


Inferior tech... again if you dont like it dont use it. it has a weakness, compensate for it. complaining about side torso death for ISXL is about as good as complaining about 0 damage zones for weapons. this being said for the people about to start going into why IS should survive ST loss. just saying, i love useing a XL in my commando DK and my assass. so fast.

So on that thought line if you dont like how little ammo is in there, use a different var of the Pir with no ammo needed, solved!

Edited by Grus, 24 February 2018 - 02:29 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 24 February 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

besides, piranha needs survivability buffs, not firepower buffs

rather than removing the 10 heatsink requirement and freeing up more tonnage for weapons (bad)

they need to give the piranha some structure quirks so it doesnt die instantly (good)

The Piranha's survivability cannot be buffed while it retains its extreme heatless DPS. That's a recipe for overpoweredness. The Piranha can shred its target to pieces in seconds, and as such it should be vulnerable to dying in seconds itself. Want more durability? Get ready to sacrifice firepower for it.

[l33tworks]

Guys just think it needs more ammo. No buffs or nerfs. I dont know why you guys ran off in that tangent right away. More ammo just give sit longer staying power on the battlefield. It doesn't make it any more or less powerful in a fight. Just means if you survive the fight you can keep going. Normally you die before your run out of ammo. It wont even be an issue for scouting or 1v1. But in QP 12vs it not enough ammo. Nowhere near enough especially if your not shooting at perfect accuracy within range 100% of the time, which is literally all the time.

Battlemaster56, on 24 February 2018 - 02:13 PM, said:

It's not big of a limitation 4 and half tons of ammo with max engine and stripped arms is more than enough to kill six mechs back to to back before running dry.

If you feeling like your low on ammo drop the engine a bit to get a extra ton of ammo in.

Do you even have a Piranha? This does nothing at all. Dropping the engine from is not feasible.

Edited by l33tworks, 24 February 2018 - 02:36 PM.

[El Bandito]

l33tworks, on 24 February 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

Guys just think it needs more ammo. No buffs or nerfs. I dont know why you guys ran off in that tangent right away. More ammo just give sit longer staying power on the battlefield. It doesn't make it any more or less powerful in a fight. Just means if you survive the fight you can keep going. Normally you die before your run out of ammo. It wont even be an issue for scouting or 1v1. But in QP 12vs it not enough ammo. Nowhere near enough especially if your not shooting at perfect accuracy within range 100% of the time, which is literally all the time.

it is the price to pay for all the firepower. If you want more ammo then remove some of the MGs.

[HammerMaster]

l33tworks, on 24 February 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

This mech has felt incomplete to me me since day 1 due to ammo limitations and heatsink requirements. Your always too low on tonnage or ammo no matter how you build. Especially the 1 variant, it could really do with either a magazine capacity quirk to boost the ammo count... if you take 12 machine guns you can hardly take any ammo. If you take less than 12 theres no point having the piranha existing.

OR

how about give it the ability to be able to take 1 less mandatory heat sink! So 2 instead of 3. Then you can pack on another ton of ammo.

No.
Use trigger discipline.
Change lasers to ER micro.
I have the 1. With magazine Nodes, PLENTY.
I'd go with leg armor/structure quirks. And 3% at most.

Edited by HammerMaster, 24 February 2018 - 03:02 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

l33tworks, on 24 February 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

Do you even have a Piranha? This does nothing at all. Dropping the engine from is not feasible.

I bought the Ultimate pack day 1 when it was announced, and it can I'm just good at ammo mangement plus I did it six times with the PIR-1(s).

[Der Geisterbaer]

l33tworks, on 24 February 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

Do you even have a Piranha? This does nothing at all. Dropping the engine from is not feasible.

A fully speed skilled Piranha with a cXL170 still runs at 148 km/h. Based on that a PIR-1 can have 115 armor points with the majority shaved from the head and only a bit off both arms. Heat management value is at 1.73/2 with 3 cHSML plus 10 machine guns.It's up to you whether you use the remaining 0.5t for

A ) a light active probe plus 3.5t ammo
B ) 4.0t of ammo
C) the full set of 12 mgs with 3.5t ammo

Now just skill the increased magazine size and you have 8400 (A and C) to 9600 ( B ) bullets that translate to 840 to 960 raw machine gun damage potential plus whatever you manage to accomplish with 1-3 cHMSL before losing your arms or flat out dying.

Oh and add whatever artillery / strafing run damage you can deal, because neither coolshot nor UAV are that much of a priority considering the usual game play for a Piranha.

Going with my personal experiences since Piranha launch I simply cannot subscribe to anything you wrote in here.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 24 February 2018 - 03:06 PM.

[ANOM O MECH]

The mech is far from under performing, so this request doesn't make any sense.

It's almost like you are saying "this mech isn't op enough"...

[Khobai]

FupDup, on 24 February 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

The Piranha's survivability cannot be buffed while it retains its extreme heatless DPS.

sure it can

you just buff the locust too

its not like the locust couldnt use buffs too

Quote

Inferior tech... again if you dont like it dont use it. it has a weakness, compensate for it. complaining about side torso death for ISXL is about as good as complaining about 0 damage zones for weapons. this being said for the people about to start going into why IS should survive ST loss. just saying, i love useing a XL in my commando DK and my assass. so fast.

why should IS tech be inferior?

thats exactly why the game isnt balanced and never will be

because people like you dont make any sense

and neither does PGI

Edited by Khobai, 24 February 2018 - 03:16 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 24 February 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

sure it can

you just buff the locust too

It''s not just relative balance against the Locust, it's balance against everything else that is at stake.

[Khobai]

Quote

It''s not just relative balance against the Locust, it's balance against everything else that is at stake.

if its such a problem give 8+ machine guns ghost heat like ive been saying all along

but the pirahna needs a survivability buff

[Der Geisterbaer]

Khobai, on 24 February 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

if its such a problem give 8+ machine guns ghost heat like ive been saying all along

0 multiplied with ghost heat factor is stil 0 ... Before ghost heat could apply in the current system you'd have to have heat on machine guns in the first place.

Khobai, on 24 February 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

but the pirahna needs a survivability buff

While I certainly wouldn't mind some +2 to +3 armor quirks depending on zone (not structure!) my personal experience once again says that what you're demanding here is no actual "must have" for the Piranha unless we're talking buffs to pretty much all mechs in that regard within the light and medium categories.

[Khobai]

Quote

0 multiplied with ghost heat factor is stil 0 ... Before ghost heat could apply in the current system you'd have to have heat on machine guns in the first place.

which can be done easily by making them generate a miniscule amount of heat. so its not really a problem.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Khobai, on 24 February 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

which can be done easily by making them generate a miniscule amount of heat. so its not really a problem.

How "miniscule" would that amount have to be in order to still have heat a non-issue for all other mechs, particularly those that can field 6 to 8? How high would that ghost heat multiplier then have to be in order to provide a "reasonable" amout of ghost heat for this one mech that (currently) can field more than those 8 mgs?
I'd say your "not really a problem" thing would actually involve some not necessarily negliable time for number crunching (a.k.a. work hours) and then having to deal with whatever side effects that multiplier has ... Things that come to mind are certain limitations in terms of math precision with the commonly used variable types within the programming language and their proper transmission over the existing net code / protocols. All super easy and sure as hell no problem whatsoever ... at least according to you who has never seen the used code base, right?