136 replies to this topic

[Diablobo]

The burden of proof is not upon me, and the status quo for years and years has been that smaller weapons fire faster.

[Bombast]

Diablobo, on 26 February 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

The burden of proof is not upon me, and the status quo for years and years has been that smaller weapons fire faster.

So you want things to change, but ate unwilling to put any argument into justifying that change besides 'because everything else does it.'

Well, I guess that's it then.

[Diablobo]

I looked on the web for any mention of why the cooldown was the same across the board, but no one ever really answered.

Have any of the devs ever mentioned it in a video or podcast, maybe?

I can't believe no one has ever mentioned it before except the one guy when they first came out, and then nothing ever came of it. All I want is an explanation. If there's an actual reason other than they just never got around to working out the numbers, I want to hear it. I think we all deserve an explanation.

Saying "that's just the way it is" is unacceptable, and it's the epitome of laziness and dishonesty- and then wrapped with some stupidity. Pathetic.

Edited by Diablobo, 26 February 2018 - 06:33 PM.

[Seranov]

I honestly don't even understand why you're so riled up about this. It's unimportant, and more to the point, helps keep people away from the weaker versions of ATMs and MRMs which are effectively nullified by AMS entirely. Throwing a fit here won't strengthen your argument. Go bother Russ on Twitter if you want a response from the devs, but don't expect them to change things because you don't like it.

[Diablobo]

Seranov, on 26 February 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

I honestly don't even understand why you're so riled up about this. It's unimportant, and more to the point, helps keep people away from the weaker versions of ATMs and MRMs which are effectively nullified by AMS entirely. Throwing a fit here won't strengthen your argument. Go bother Russ on Twitter if you want a response from the devs, but don't expect them to change things because you don't like it.

It's not unimportant. A slight cooldown boost to the ATM6s and 9s would make them more viable for mediums and assaults that can't carry the big launchers or a bunch of the little ones.

Boosting the rate of fire for the MRM10s and 20s would also greatly help the IS mediums and heavies that can't carry the bigger ones or boat the smalls.

Everyone keeps saying how crappy the MRM10s and ATM3s are, so they obviously need something to make them more viable. That much is acknowledged by everyone. ATM3s and MRM10s kind of suck without a little something extra to make them more appealing.

The only reason I bring this up now is because I haven't been playing for over a year, and I only just started up again two weeks ago. I love the new toys and mechs, but this glaring inconsistency and flaw with the cooldowns completely goes against the practices of everything done so far. Smaller weapons are supposed to fire faster than larger ones, and in this game where they keep track of cooldowns and heat to the 0.001 level of precision, equal cooldowns completely mess all that up and just plain offend the sensibilities. Why even bother giving us all those decimal places if they aren't going to use them?

Edited by Diablobo, 26 February 2018 - 07:28 PM.

[Curccu]

MechaBattler, on 26 February 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

Are there popular builds of MRM10/20s? Seems like most people just run the 30. 40 if it's a single missile point like the Vindicator 1X with it's 25% missile cooldown.

Damn, I have totally missed Vindicator 1X quirks, have to buy new trollmech!

[Khobai]

Quote

The burden of proof is not upon me, and the status quo for years and years has been that smaller weapons fire faster.

yet people still arnt using CSRM2s and CLRM5s over the larger launchers

making smaller weapons fire faster doesnt get people to use them

larger launchers will always win out over smaller launchers as long as missile hardpoints are limited

making the ATM3 fire faster isnt going to make people suddenly use the ATM3, why would they?

Giving clans a mech with 8+ missile hardpoints or unlinking ATM3s from the other ATMs for ghost heat might get people to use ATM3s though.

Quote

Boosting the rate of fire for the MRM10s and 20s would also greatly help the IS mediums and heavies that can't carry the bigger ones or boat the smalls.

IS mediums and heavies have no problem taking the bigger launchers though

theres no reason to stick an MRM10 on a medium or heavy

maybe on a light as a longer range alternative to the SRM6, thats about it. But even on lights the MRM20 is often the better choice.

the biggest problem with the MRM10 IMO is its heat. the MRM20 gives you much better heat efficiency so youre better off just taking the MRM20.

making the MRM10 fire faster will just make its heat problem worse.

Edited by Khobai, 27 February 2018 - 12:53 AM.

[Bombast]

Diablobo, on 26 February 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

It's not unimportant. A slight cooldown boost to the ATM6s and 9s would make them more viable for mediums and assaults that can't carry the big launchers or a bunch of the little ones.

Wait, I thought we were trying to give light mechs firepower. Why are we trying to buff big mechs that have no issues carrying any kind of rack now?

Quote

Boosting the rate of fire for the MRM10s and 20s would also greatly help the IS mediums and heavies that can't carry the bigger ones or boat the smalls.

IS Mediums should be carrying 40 MRMs, minimum. Ideally 60. Heavies should be carrying 60-80 missiles.

This is part of the problem with MRMs - The small racks simply aren't big enough to reach 'critical mass.'

Quote

Everyone keeps saying how crappy the MRM10s and ATM3s are, so they obviously need something to make them more viable. That much is acknowledged by everyone. ATM3s and MRM10s kind of suck without a little something extra to make them more appealing.

They're crappy due to the underlying mechanics of MWO, and more specifically, the mechanics of the missile systems in questions. You can't fix them just by cranking Rate of Fire up.

Quote

The only reason I bring this up now is because I haven't been playing for over a year, and I only just started up again two weeks ago. I love the new toys and mechs, but this glaring inconsistency and flaw with the cooldowns completely goes against the practices of everything done so far. Smaller weapons are supposed to fire faster than larger ones, and in this game where they keep track of cooldowns and heat to the 0.001 level of precision, equal cooldowns completely mess all that up and just plain offend the sensibilities. Why even bother giving us all those decimal places if they aren't going to use them?

This isn't even true anymore for other weapons. Medium and ER Medium Lasers both cycle slower than their Large brethren.

[Diablobo]

Seranov, on 24 February 2018 - 05:56 PM, said:

"Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong."

Oh, yeah, it's that awful quote ripped off right from social media in the worst most god-awful SW content ever made. Of course you like that movie. Makes sense now.

[Bombast]

Diablobo, on 28 February 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:

Oh, yeah, it's that awful quote ripped off right from social media in the worst most god-awful SW content ever made. Of course you like that movie. Makes sense now.

Ok, now you're attacking people. Calm down.

[PocketYoda]

Dont LRM me please, on 26 February 2018 - 05:31 AM, said:

Too much ******** like this is going to send bad feedback to pgi

Yeah right keep up the fake news..

[Exard3k]

Khobai, on 27 February 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

the biggest problem with the MRM10 IMO is its heat. the MRM20 gives you much better heat efficiency so youre better off just taking the MRM20.

you save 1ton with 2xMRM10 vs. 1xMRM20 though.

[Bombast]

Samial, on 28 February 2018 - 04:13 AM, said:

Yeah right keep up the fake news..

Samial, I don't want to be rude, but I'd really suggest playing more and exploring the game to a greater degree before making balancing claims like you do. There's a very good reason why people pretty much never agree with anything you say.

My suggestion would be to join one of the Discords (Most of the big streamers have good ones) and ask questions. Most people are very willing to explain and walk you through stuff if you just show you want to learn.

Edited by Bombast, 28 February 2018 - 04:53 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

you save 1ton with 2xMRM10 vs. 1xMRM20 though.

yeah but its 8 heat vs 6 heat

saving 1 ton doesnt make up that heat difference even if you spend it on a double heatsink

you would need closer to 3-4 extra DHS to dissipate the extra heat from the x2 MRM10s vs the x1 MRM20.

the mrm10 just isnt very good. its easily the worst of all the mrm launchers. with MRMs the bigger launchers are much better. although the MRM40 is a bit of an oddity because it gets a longer cooldown for some goofy reason. So the MRM30 is the best one. But the MRM20 is pretty good too.

Edited by Khobai, 28 February 2018 - 07:33 AM.

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 28 February 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

yeah but its 8 heat vs 6 heat

saving 1 ton doesnt make up that heat difference even if you spend it on a double heatsink

you would need closer to 3-4 extra DHS to dissipate the extra heat from the x2 MRM10s vs the x1 MRM20.

I suspect anything making the choice between a 20 or 10+10 is so undergunned that the engine heat sinks will cover down on the heat discrepancy.

Quote

the mrm10 just isnt very good. its easily the worst of all the mrm launchers. with MRMs the bigger launchers are much better. although the MRM40 is a bit of an oddity because it gets a longer cooldown for some goofy reason. So the MRM30 is the best one. But the MRM20 is pretty good too.

The MRM40 is still Superior to the MRM30 - More damage per ton and per minute. The difference is in how they play , and installation cost.

The MRM20 is bad.

Edited by Bombast, 28 February 2018 - 08:16 AM.

[Exard3k]

Bombast, on 28 February 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

The MRM40 is still Superior to the MRM30 - More damage per ton and per minute.

damage per minute? I'm shooting players, not NPC mechs in testing grounds. The difference is the movement and the fact I can't shoot them for 60 seconds once spotted.

Oh and MRM 40 has much more spread than the smaller launchers. And of course the limitation of max. 40MRMs per volley without heat penalties.

[Khobai]

Quote

The MRM40 is still Superior to the MRM30 - More damage per ton and per minute. The difference is in how they play , and installation cost.

The MRM20 is bad.

the MRM40 is not superior to the MRM30 at all. its not even superior to x2 MRM20s except when you only have 1 missile hardpoint.

because you can fire x2 MRM30s but you can only fire x1 MRM40 before ghost heat. the MRM40 also has a longer cooldown. its bad. The only time the MRM40 is worth considering is if its your only MRM launcher and you cant take two MRM20s due to hardpoint limitations. x2 MRM20s fire faster and have tighter spread making them superior to an MRM40.

and no the MRM20 is not bad. the MRM30 is better though.

MRM30 > MRM20 > MRM40 > MRM10

thats how I rate them

Edited by Khobai, 28 February 2018 - 09:21 AM.

[Bombast]

Exard3k, on 28 February 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

damage per minute? I'm shooting players, not NPC mechs in testing grounds. The difference is the movement and the fact I can't shoot them for 60 seconds once spotted.

Oh and MRM 40 has much more spread than the smaller launchers. And of course the limitation of max. 40MRMs per volley without heat penalties.

The spreads basically meaningless against your typical non-stationary target. And have you actually looked at the ghost heat penalty on an MRM40? It's trivial to the extreme.

I have no idea why you can't shoot them for 60 seconds. That's entirely on you, I suspect.

[Diablobo]

Khobai, on 28 February 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

yeah but its 8 heat vs 6 heat

saving 1 ton doesnt make up that heat difference even if you spend it on a double heatsink

you would need closer to 3-4 extra DHS to dissipate the extra heat from the x2 MRM10s vs the x1 MRM20.

the mrm10 just isnt very good. its easily the worst of all the mrm launchers. with MRMs the bigger launchers are much better. although the MRM40 is a bit of an oddity because it gets a longer cooldown for some goofy reason. So the MRM30 is the best one. But the MRM20 is pretty good too.

I suppose you are the type of player that likes to facetank assaults in your light when what you should be doing is hit and run. Two MRM10s is better than one MRM20 all day long if you are in a light or harasser who doesn't ever go toe to toe. Go figure.

[Diablobo]

Bombast, on 28 February 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

I suspect anything making the choice between a 20 or 10+10 is so undergunned that the engine heat sinks will cover down on the heat discrepancy.

The heat is completely irrelevant for the mechs that don't care about heat sustainability. They want to dump their alpha once or twice and get out of there. They don't trade, and they don't facetank. Having the same cooldown with a small launcher as the bigger one is stupid, plain and simple.