24 replies to this topic

[Lykaon]

Papaspud, on 27 February 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

Why do, as a general rule, IS new mech releases mostly have to be buffed to not suck- many still do even after, yet new clan mechs for the most part need to be nerfed to not be quite so powerful.......................?

Hardpoint inflation?

For starters there is the imbalance in basic core construction options.

Clan Endo steel is identical in performance to Inner Sphere but has half the critical space cost. So clan endo is not nearly as restrictive as I.S. endo.

Clan Ferro fibrious armor is also half the crit cost as I.S. ferro AND provides more armor points per ton than I.S. Ferro Fibrious armor.

Clan double heatsinks are one third the size of I.S. Dubs

Clan XL engines are also one third the size of I.S. XL engines. And as an added benefit of being smaller the Clan XL engine can survive a side torso destruction unlike it's I.S. counterpart making it clearly superior and by a large margin.

So even before we arm a clan mech it's very very likely to simply be better off than an Inner Sphere counterpart. With more available critical space and tonnage for weapons and support equipment.

Now that we have gotten to the arming phase of building this hypothetical clan mech we now have the added benefit of many clan weapons also being smaller and lighter than I.S. counterparts. To some degree clan weapons advantages are offset by adjusting the individual weapon's capabilities ie. langer laser burn durations or missiles launching in a rippled stream instead of a simultanious volley etc. But, freqently this is not adiquate to truely offset the potential advantages of the smaller and lighter weapons when combined with the already superior clan construction options.

So, Nerfs and buffs are utilized to attempt to level the playing field.

[Scyther]

@Khobai:

"And for what? because PGI doesnt want to upset the lore crowd by making ISXL survive side torso destruction? Thats ridiculous."

I am 99.5% certain it won't be 'the lore crowd' screaming if you make IS XL the same as Clan XL. In fact, despite Samial's posting in every thread that the "TT crowd" breaks the game by their insistence on TT, that group has had very little influence on the game as a whole.

The groups that have screamed the loudest, the longest, about everything that does not suit their playstyle, is the highly competitive 'must win, must have good stats' PPFLD shooter crowd, swapping places with the "I hate being shot up by superior mechs/meta combos, nerf it" crowd. The two sets have gone back and forth on issues since Beta, on weapons, LRMs, balance, engines, quirks, and Clan vs IS.

The 'must wins' who play Clan scream if their tech edge gets nerfed. They also scream when IS gets anything decent. They may say it is because lore, or because TT, or because balance, or because 'you can't change what I paid for after I bought it'. But it boils down to 'my tech edge helps my stats and I will yell if that is threatened'.

(Edit: Not saying all of the 'must wins' play Clan, btw, the IS ones yell about other things.)

The "nerf it!" crowd screams whenever they perceive anything as being more dangerous than they are. Sometimes they are justified (Thunderbolt superquirks, or IS vs Clan balance), sometimes not so justified (Clans have been nerfed to uselessness!).

That said, given the amount of time it takes PGI to respond to any of the actual issues in the game, I doubt they are listening to anyone very much. If they are, it sure isn't the occasional "But TT!" comment on the forums.

As an aside: it just occurred to me that when you license an IP from someone else, there is likely something in the agreement that says you will stick 'as close to' to the IP as possible given the new game format. Not sure what the agreement might be for PGI but I'd be surprised if they didn't have some restrictions on breaking the IP boundaries.

Edited by MadBadger, 28 February 2018 - 04:50 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Try playing Uziels or Hellspawns and see how fun they are...

Hint they aren't and are a waste of money..

[JediPanther]

The only reason I play IS is due to IS being generally faster and with shorter duration weapons. Clans it just seems like I'm firing a laser while slowed down 500% I could order a pizza online and have it delivered before that clan laser has finished both its burn and cool down. not to mention that I find clans to run super hot despite dhs taking up one less slot that I pretty much have a standard 'clan mech tree' of full mech ops for cool run then fifty-five points minimal into fire power for cool down and heat gen. Right there goes seventy to seventy-five points out of ninety-one with a few more lost to double cool shot.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Plaid Ninja, on 28 February 2018 - 01:59 AM, said:

I had one for a few days, and sold it for being a big, walking coffin. It's not the slightest bit tanky. Sure, it has big armor numbers in the mechlab, but in practice it's a deathtrap. The arm hardpoints have worse than King Crab tier horrible placement so if you're anywhere but a large expanse of perfectly flat ground at least half your shots will be wasted on the environment. You're massive even compared to other 100 ton assaults, and you have the same max engine size as the short school bus the Annihilator's designer rode as a kid, so good luck using cover. It's so big that Michael J. Fox during an earthquake could hit it with a ERPPC from the other side of the map without even zooming in. It instantly gets focus fired as soon as anyone sees it. Plus you're so ridiculously tall you're constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY, getting stuck on things you can't even see. It's by far, BY FAR the absolute worst assault I've ever driven, hands down. There's no competition.

Its litterally the best 100 ton mech in the game. Give driving the Dire Wolf a try for comparison if you want "not the slightest bit tanky". In comparison Annihilator has far superior hitboxes, far superior durability, higher DPS options, higher PPFLD options, and the same mobility.

Assuming you have the durability tree skilled up you can take 3 78 damage Hellbringer alpha strikes straight to the CT without twisting at all and *still* be alive. If you're actually spreading damage you can get upwards of 10 hits in before dying using the damage reduction of damage transfering through destroyed torsos. Its flatly the tankiest mech in the entire game.

The side torso hardpoints are also very high mounted, you can just shoot over some people infront of you generally, and considering you have 4 in the torso and 2 in the arms this just means you can go and put your brawling weapons in the arms for better tracking against lights while your other weapons are in the torso.


The goal in general when playing assaults it to position yourself properly so that you don't get focused by entire teams, doesn't matter what mech you're in if that happens, though the Annihilator usually has the DPS and durability to kill a guy even when rushing right into 12 people in pug queue. Think of yourself defensively in an Annihilator, you hold chokepoints, keep a watch on flanks, and then once you counter the enemy push by chewing up whoever tried to flank or go through the chokepoint you cool off and go on to lead the counter push.