41 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Starting with weapon I feel is the wrong way of doing things is how I feel, weapon balances should be done, after the core issues are complete, or six, nine months a year down the line, these have to be adjusted all over again, even in the event of there being no new weapons added.

Also we need P.G.I to fess up and tell us, not only can net code for hit registration, be improved, and are they capable of doing it.

This is one of the reasons for laser domination. the servers have more time to deal with the calculations for the hit.

The same reason it was roughly three years ago better to chain fire SRM 6 than splat alpha, less calculations to make.

It's important to know this, because if hit registry is going to remain bad for splat, then a faster cool down for chain attacks is very important, if suddenly the net codes improved this cool down will make splat attacks O.P. and it will need changing. Again.

Weapon adjustment must be done around the core balance and code improvements if any, not the other way around.

That said i'll look at it, because at least your trying to get consensus and make P.G.I do their job more openly.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Machine guns need changes to their crit capabilities. I'm fine with them chewing up my internals, but immediately losing my weapons the moment I lose armor is incredibly un-fun to experience. Drop their crit bonuses and give them a flat damage buff against internals. Or heck, buff their damage against armor, too. Just get rid of the crit nonsense.

I also voted for IS LAMS, because there's little reason for them to exist as they are. Standard AMS are just better in every way. If 1 ton of ammo per AMS isn't enough to last you the whole match, then you and your team need to be pushing more aggressively.

I also don't like the way RACs work. RAC 2s and 5s feel identical in the way they handle. They ought to be differentiated in other ways, like rate of fire, spool-up time and cooldown time, and so on.

Plaid Ninja, on 28 February 2018 - 03:25 AM, said:

ATMs desperately need the minimum range removed. It makes no sense for a weapon that gains damage the closer you are to have a minimum range.



You're doing it wrong. In my 4 SRM6 bushwacker I won a 1 vs 1 against an Atlas today.

Removing ATM minimum range while changing nothing else would make it extremely overpowered.

And "I solo-ed an Atlas" is a meaningless statement without a specific build. Anyone can 1v1 an LRM Atlas, for example. Heck, I managed to 1v2 a fresh Atlas and some other assault in my Heavy Metal once, many years back, but only because both pilots were very bad at the game.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 28 February 2018 - 05:15 AM.

[AdrenaHawk]

Voted HMGs because compared to MGs/LMGs they are twice the weight, half the ammo, and almost no range for little benefit.
Clan/IS Small pulse and ER Micro and Micro Pulse because they just feel completely underwhelming at their intended job.
Clan/IS AC2s, UAC2s, and RAC2s, because unless boated and quirked they are a joke.
ATMs because they could use extra missile health.

[Diablobo]

Being a closed beta veteran who took a break for a long time, I definitely sense a theme. Missiles have never been right, and they never will be.

[NRP]

IS AC20 needs a velocity buff.

But I also voted for other things.

[Snowbluff]

I voted for IS SL and SPL and Clan Micropulse and Micro Laser. (buffs probably)

I think RACs are too hot.

IS ERPPC is the worst PPC in the game. Worst Damage/heat, and at least the clan version has splash and is lighter.

Also Clan laser vom needs looking at.

Oh and HMG for both factions.

Edited by Snowbluff, 28 February 2018 - 07:07 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

IS ERPPC is the worst PPC in the game.

lol no

the ISERPPC is actually better than the CERPPC in a lot of ways

1) much faster velocity
2) lower heat for the same PPFLD
3) since clans have to take a targeting computer to increase CERPPC velocity, the ISERPPC actually weighs less and takes up less crit slots than the CERPPC+Targeting computer
4) IS get way more mechs with PPC quirks and way better PPC quirks
5) splash damage on CERPPC is entirely overrated, half the time it disappears into thin air and you dont even get the full splash damage even though you paid the extra heat for it.

the only reason the ISERPPC underperforms is because ISDHS suck compared to CDHS. Its a heatsink problem. Not a weapon problem. ISDHS need to be buffed to true double heatsinks to match CDHS better, so IS can actually handle the heat from firing x2 ISERPPCs.

If you gave IS the ability to dissipate heat like clans, the ISERPPC would be just as good as the CERPPC, if not better.

Edited by Khobai, 28 February 2018 - 07:53 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Tarogato, on 27 February 2018 - 08:43 PM, said:

---> POLL HERE <---

This means buffs OR nerfs. If you think a weapon is in dire need of an adjustment either direction, vote for it. Select as many as needed.

Yes, this is related to the whole "community balance" thing, and yes a proper update to that should be coming soon. (sorry for the delays, we've been, ermm... ruminating. And I've been being a potato.)

This pretty vague. All weapons need fixed in MWO in my opinion.

[Verilligo]

Nema Nabojiv, on 28 February 2018 - 03:49 AM, said:

2.15 damage to clan PPC

So you want the Clan ERPPC to have the same PPFLD, heat, and cooldown as the IS HPPC, but let the Clan ERPPC keep its better range, velocity, tonnage AND slot size advantage? Please tell me you were planning on compromising on some of these aspects or that you were otherwise going to offer the HPPC a serious buff.

[Athom83]

One thing I don't really like about those polls is that they show results by total % of votes instead of % of people that voted. The later would be vastly more helpful than the former.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Verilligo, on 28 February 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

So you want the Clan ERPPC to have the same PPFLD, heat, and cooldown as the IS HPPC, but let the Clan ERPPC keep its better range, velocity, tonnage AND slot size advantage? Please tell me you were planning on compromising on some of these aspects or that you were otherwise going to offer the HPPC a serious buff.

1.I am not planning anything, its up to PGI known for their ability to not do things they should have done long ago.
2.There was a point about minranges.

Edited by Nema Nabojiv, 28 February 2018 - 10:07 AM.

[LordNothing]

JackalBeast, on 28 February 2018 - 12:12 AM, said:

They might revisit in the future, the difference more importantly with these launchers is the heat generated. By ATMs and MRMs are hotter than their constituent weapons.

mrms are only hot if you boat them. i personally think their true value lies in mixed builds though. stick an mrm30 or 40 on your only missile hardpoint and prosper. good for fast cool damage. great for smashing objectives, great brawl weapon, useful at skirmish ranges.

the smaller launchers do need something though. i think you are better off with the biggest launcher you can carry rather than a few 10s. maybe more reduced spread on the smaller end.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 February 2018 - 10:25 AM.

[MechaBattler]

I feel like Snubs and light PPCs could use some love. Snubs should get reduced heat to make them better for brawling. And Light PPCs should either have their GH cap increased or have their potential DPS increased.

[Tarogato]

Cathy, on 28 February 2018 - 04:39 AM, said:

Also we need P.G.I to fess up and tell us, not only can net code for hit registration, be improved, and are they capable of doing it.

This is one of the reasons for laser domination. the servers have more time to deal with the calculations for the hit.

From what I've heard, the WC teams who played at MechCon noticed that lasers are much stronger on LAN. Which implies that lasers more likely have the worst hit registration on live, not the best. And the reason lasers are dominant has nothing to do with hit registration.

[Reno Blade]

My primary concern lies on the current laser vomit strength and boating in general.

But overall, boating is still too dominant. And as we don't have Power Draw or more strict Ghost Heat groups, we need to "NERF" a lot of weapons, so that even boated they are not stripping half the mech down in one shot.

Even just looking at 4x SRM6A volleys is a necessary loadout if you want to take missiles.
Taking less (e.g. SRM4s or just using 3x SRM6 and few med lasers) makes your build weaker.

The power creep for boated weapons need to be less efficient.
Therefore I suggest that weapons in general should require more facetime for the full damage application.
Results could be achieved by changing the following weapon attributes:
- Heavy/ Std / ER Laser: more beam duration
- Pulse Laser: shorter beam duration and cooldowns, but less damage (more dps weapon)
- all PPCs using splash (see cERPPC)
- all ACs using burst fire
- all missiles using stream fire and longer cooldowns, but with better velocity
- Gauss getting longer charge time (no other idea how to spread gauss damage as it's pure PPFLD)



Some samples quoted below from my sig link https://mwomercs.com...ng-3060-weapons

[wizwoz]

I reckon 95% of people asking for LRM buffs are because they can’t aim, I’m dreading a buff on them quickplay will be even less interesting as everyone spends half the match hiding or spamming missiles blind.

[Tarogato]

Reno Blade, on 28 February 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

...we need to "NERF" a lot of weapons, so that even boated they are not stripping half the mech down in one shot.

[...]


The power creep for boated weapons need to be less efficient.
Therefore I suggest that weapons in general should require more facetime for the full damage application.
Results could be achieved by changing the following weapon attributes:
- Heavy/ Std / ER Laser: more beam duration
- Pulse Laser: shorter beam duration and cooldowns, but less damage (more dps weapon)
- all PPCs using splash (see cERPPC)
- all ACs using burst fire
- all missiles using stream fire and longer cooldowns, but with better velocity
- Gauss getting longer charge time (no other idea how to spread gauss damage as it's pure PPFLD)

I doubt your crusade for "unfunning" even more weapons will be popular. But good luck.

Reno Blade, on 28 February 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

Even just looking at 4x SRM6A volleys is a necessary loadout if you want to take missiles.
Taking less (e.g. SRM4s or just using 3x SRM6 and few med lasers) makes your build weaker.

Just off the top of my head, some mechs that are or have been viable with those kinda of loadouts:

JR7-O	4x SRM4
JVN-10N	4x SRM4
ASN-21	4x SRM4 or 4x SRM4a
GRF-2N	4x SRM4 or 4x SRM4a
BJ-2	4x SRM4 or 4x SRM4a
ASN-23	3x SRM6a
CN9-A	3x SRM6a
SHD-2D2	4x SRM4 + LB10
RGH-1C	3x SRM6a + LB10
TBT-7M	3x SRM6a
WVR-7K	3x SRM6a
SHD-2K	3x SRM6a + 3x M(P)L

There's surely more. Like Osiris, Hellspawn (better than people give it credit for), Cougar, other Centurion builds, the HBK-4SP, Ice Ferret, QKD-4H, WHM-7S...

... it's not quite as bad as you make it out to be. Revert PGI's nerfs to artemis and SRM spread, and these builds will be viable/competitive again.

[sycocys]

Taragato you should really be spending your time doing something more useful like helping to design the framework for a competing game.

[Exilyth]

• I don't see any Micro/(non ER)Small lasers used (could use a small buff - maybe a bit more range?) - they're inferior to the ER versions.
  
• Narc is pretty rare except for that one stealth Raven showing up once/month narcing the whole enemy team.
  
• All LBX need ammo switching, but that's more of a feature request than a balancing issue.
  
• Tag toggle would be nice to have, but that's more of a feature request than a balancing issue.
  
• Lams could do with a microscopic heat reduction.
  
• Not sure about min range on Rocket Launchers.

[PocketYoda]

NRP, on 28 February 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

IS AC20 needs a velocity buff.

But I also voted for other things.

Its like shooting a potato gun lol