14 replies to this topic

[An Innocent Urbie]

it has jump jets
it has good quirks on missiles

what it lack is armor quirks

[Khobai]

catapult should get better armor/structure quirks on its arms, they get shot off every game.

catapult also lacks hardpoints. 6 hardpoints doesnt cut it for a heavy. all catapults should have 8 hardpoints.

catapult C1 = 6E, 2M (+2E)
catapult C4 = 6M, 2E (+2M)
catapult A1 = 8M (+2M)
catapult K2 = 4E, 4B (+2B added to CT)
catapult jester = 8E (+2E)
catapult butterbee = fine as is

Edited by Khobai, 08 March 2018 - 03:25 AM.

[Curccu]

An Innocent Urbie, on 08 March 2018 - 03:05 AM, said:

it has jump jets
it has good quirks on missiles

what it lack is armor quirks

Compared to IV-4
- poor agility
- no armor quirks like you said
- will lose them ears fast (I'm guessing you want missile build (MRMs))

So yeah very poor version of IV-4

[El Bandito]

There is also the IV-4 Lite--the Trebbie-7M. Better missile quirks, same missile port locations, same JJs, and has decent structure quirks.

[Bombast]

The Catapult is an ok MRM carrier... but it's not as good as the IV-4, or even, in my opinion, the Trebuchet TBT-7M. It doesn't move well, and it can't carry more than 80 tubes. So it makes for a poor harasser and a poor 'defense through damage' mech.

If you don't have the MC, the mobile MRM choices are obvious:

Trebuchet TBT-7M - 20% cooldown, 20% heat, good mobility with jump jets. Its everything you could ask for when it comes to a MRM boat. It can do MRM80 reasonable well, but in my opinion the MRM60 build is superior. The rate of fire is insane, which is really fun, but more importantly an MRM60 loadout allows for max jump jets, and thus max mobility. A poptarting TBT-7M is capital F Fun.

Wolverine WVR-7D - 20% cooldown, excellent mobility with jump jets and MASC. Not personally my jam, but a lot of really good players I know swear by it. It has more armor than the Trebuchet, can jump, and MASC lets is maneuver in and out of position quickly. It typically only carriers an MRM50, but it can really make them work for it.

If the Trebuchet is the superior missile platform, the Wolverine is the superior mech.

Edited by Bombast, 08 March 2018 - 05:27 AM.

[Bohxim]

The wolverine 7K is pretty awesome too. Drop the masc for mrm 60. The mobility and jj is enough for me

[Simbacca]

Khobai, on 08 March 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

catapult should get better armor/structure quirks on its arms, they get shot off every game.

catapult also lacks hardpoints. 6 hardpoints doesnt cut it for a heavy. all catapults should have 8 hardpoints.

catapult C1 = 6E, 2M (+2E)
catapult C4 = 6M, 2E (+2M)
catapult A1 = 8M (+2M)
catapult K2 = 4E, 4B (+2B added to CT)
catapult jester = 8E (+2E)
catapult butterbee = fine as is

We do not need even more hardpoint inflation. Armour and missile quirks is all that is really needed considering the Catapult C1, C4 and Butterbee are missile boats. For the K2 and Jester armour and heat quirks would do just nicely.

Edited by Simbacca, 08 March 2018 - 05:55 AM.

[El Bandito]

Bombast, on 08 March 2018 - 05:26 AM, said:

Wolverine WVR-7D - 20% cooldown, excellent mobility with jump jets and MASC. Not personally my jam, but a lot of really good players I know swear by it. It has more armor than the Trebuchet, can jump, and MASC lets is maneuver in and out of position quickly. It typically only carriers an MRM50, but it can really make them work for it.

People like the WVR-7D cause their missile mounts are close together, which helps immensely with convergence issues.

Bohxim, on 08 March 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

The wolverine 7K is pretty awesome too. Drop the masc for mrm 60. The mobility and jj is enough for me

It is the 7D that has the MASC, not the 7K.

[Curccu]

El Bandito, on 08 March 2018 - 04:41 AM, said:

There is also the IV-4 Lite--the Trebbie-7M. Better missile quirks, same missile port locations, same JJs, and has decent structure quirks.

I was about to promote 7M also, I actually prefer it over IV-4 because missile heat quirk + it's so much more agile.

Also one of my new favorite is VND-1X, awesome armor and weapon quirks + shieldside (LFE only but still better than losing weapons or life)

[xRatas]

Catapult indeed seems like a poor man's substitute for IV-4.

If I'd try it, I'd try C4 MRM80 (alpha when peeking, chain while doing DPS) because of the extra tonnage , easily lost ears and that -10% missile heat. Also XL300 might be quite decent option, as you'd most likely lose at least half of your weapons first anyway.

Could make up a bit of lost survivability with more alpha power for peeking, staring people into oblivion isn't going to work with Cat anyway. Pair of medlas might or might not be worth it in addition. You'd still deal 50 point alphas with one lost ear with those. Anyway, lot less forgiving than IV-4.

Edited by xRatas, 08 March 2018 - 11:53 AM.

[Trenchbird]

Khobai, on 08 March 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

catapult butterbee = fine as is

I just now realized that's problably why the Butterbee is the only missile Catapult I own. Because it actually has decent laser AND missile capacity.

[Escef]

IMX, you don't lose the missile boxes all that often. And if you do, it's because they've taken a lot of hits meant for the body. Given that most Catapults run XL engines (they're relatively XL friendly, and most people won't bother spending the c-bills to refit their old Catapults with LFEs), having the missile box absorb some hate to keep the mech alive is acceptable. (Especially for the C1 and BB, which can still do respectable work with one arm and the torso lasers.)

As things stand right now, however, the A1(C) desperately needs an equipment revamp. A lot of players try to throw LRMs from barely inside range, and that doesn't work well. LRMs are easy to use, and even easier to use badly. (And stuff your "all LRMs are a waste" BS, in solo-QP tier 1 players die to them almost as well as tier 5 players.) My idea for a revamped A1(C) is : https://mwo.smurfy-n...81cbd6718136c02 The lack of IDF is to encourage more aggressive play. Players in this game are sorely lacking in aggression, and anything that encourages players to actually fight is a good thing.

[Simbacca]

Escef, on 08 March 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

IMX, you don't lose the missile boxes all that often. And if you do, it's because they've taken a lot of hits meant for the body. Given that most Catapults run XL engines (they're relatively XL friendly, and most people won't bother spending the c-bills to refit their old Catapults with LFEs), having the missile box absorb some hate to keep the mech alive is acceptable. (Especially for the C1 and BB, which can still do respectable work with one arm and the torso lasers.)

As things stand right now, however, the A1(C) desperately needs an equipment revamp. A lot of players try to throw LRMs from barely inside range, and that doesn't work well. LRMs are easy to use, and even easier to use badly. (And stuff your "all LRMs are a waste" BS, in solo-QP tier 1 players die to them almost as well as tier 5 players.) My idea for a revamped A1(C) is : https://mwo.smurfy-n...81cbd6718136c02 The lack of IDF is to encourage more aggressive play. Players in this game are sorely lacking in aggression, and anything that encourages players to actually fight is a good thing.

Though LFE does have the disadvantage of weighing more than XL.

My C1 runs: XL265 (used to be XL280 - gave that to Butterbee; weight savings went to more LRM ammo), 2 Med Lasers, 2 Large Lasers, 2 LRM15 Artemis with 6 Tons Ammo, 1 AMS with 1 Ton Ammo, and 1 DHS. No Jump Jets.

[Brain Cancer]

Khobai, on 08 March 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

catapult should get better armor/structure quirks on its arms, they get shot off every game.

catapult also lacks hardpoints. 6 hardpoints doesnt cut it for a heavy. all catapults should have 8 hardpoints.

catapult C1 = 6E, 2M (+2E)
catapult C4 = 6M, 2E (+2M)
catapult A1 = 8M (+2M)
catapult K2 = 4E, 4B (+2B added to CT)
catapult jester = 8E (+2E)
catapult butterbee = fine as is

Funny you should mention that- originally, the -K2 had two more E hardpoints, but was considered OP and they were removed.

Let that sink in for the modern day.

[InvictusLee]

El Bandito, on 08 March 2018 - 04:41 AM, said:

There is also the IV-4 Lite--the Trebbie-7M. Better missile quirks, same missile port locations, same JJs, and has decent structure quirks.

OR the Uziel Hero!