46 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

Hey guys, can someone explain this to me?

Have you noticed, how if you have a lock-on weapon, like LRMs, and you're like, saaay, 600 meters away from the target.. let's say the target also has ECM..

You have target and begin to lock.. you are acquiring lock for 10 seconds, and finally get it.. only to lose it completely the second you fire.

This somehow has nothing to do with your spotters. And, you are more likely to keep the lock if you don't fire or chain fire, then if you alpha?

Am I crazy, or has somebody else noticed this?

Also, note that this happens regardless of skill tree sensor nodes.. full-nodes, or not a single one, you can loose a solid lock the second you fire?!

All of the above is derived from in-game observation and multy-year experience playing with LRMs..

P.S.

This is not a thread about how LRMs suck or not, it's about acquiring target lock and keeping it.

Please don't devolve it into "LRMs suck".

[El Bandito]

Vellron2005, on 08 March 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

Also, note that this happens regardless of skill tree sensor nodes.. full-nodes, or not a single one, you can loose a solid lock the second you fire?!

I haven't been using LRMs recently so it could be a recent phenomenon. Never had such issue when I was playing LRMs though. Are you sure you didn't move the cursor around when firing, cause right now locks can be broken easily if you wave your cursor around.

[visionGT4]

Vellron2005, on 08 March 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

Have you noticed, how if you have a lock-on weapon, like LRMs, and you're like, saaay, 600 meters away from the target..

This somehow has nothing to do with your spotters.

Also, note that this happens regardless of skill

All of the above is derived from in-game observation and multy-year experience playing with LRMs..

P.S.

This is not a thread about how LRMs suck or not, it's about acquiring target lock and keeping it.

Please don't devolve it into "LRMs suck".

you could try being on the front line and getting your own locks

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

visionGT4, on 08 March 2018 - 01:22 AM, said:

you could try being on the front line and getting your own locks

I never have the issue OP is suggesting, and I get brawling awards with my LRM boats.

[aardappelianen]

Yep though im sure it has nothing to do with pressing fire, i think its because you can finish acquiring the lock in the second that your target moved into cover causing you to lose the lock instantly
This is why i always wait a second before firing my lrms into the blind unless somebody calls out that target

[Khobai]

LRMs probably should be able to reacquire a different target if you lose lock on the original target but lock onto a new target while the missiles are still in flight.

[D V Devnull]

Geez... Time for me to catch up with a mess like this... And it's going to be a wall-of-text even though I try not to post that big a chunk all at one time... Oh well, plenty of people to quote and reply to!

---

Vellron2005, on 08 March 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

Hey guys, can someone explain this to me?

Have you noticed, how if you have a lock-on weapon, like LRMs, and you're like, saaay, 600 meters away from the target.. let's say the target also has ECM..

You have target and begin to lock.. you are acquiring lock for 10 seconds, and finally get it.. only to lose it completely the second you fire.

This somehow has nothing to do with your spotters. And, you are more likely to keep the lock if you don't fire or chain fire, then if you alpha?

Am I crazy, or has somebody else noticed this?

Also, note that this happens regardless of skill tree sensor nodes.. full-nodes, or not a single one, you can loose a solid lock the second you fire?!

All of the above is derived from in-game observation and multy-year experience playing with LRMs..

P.S.

This is not a thread about how LRMs suck or not, it's about acquiring target lock and keeping it.

Please don't devolve it into "LRMs suck".

Hi there, Vellron2005. It so happens that your usage of Other's Missile Locks is suffering from something beyond your control. It is not your Target Decay which factors into your Enemy remaining targetable, but that of your Teammate's Target Decay. So when the lock is failing, it is because your Teammate has lost sight and their Target Decay time has unfortunately run out. This results in a lot of the missed shots and failed hits that you're experiencing, but there's not much that can be done when they're likely also having to dodge Incoming Enemy Fire on them. As you probably know, they can't just run up and go re-spot the target for you.

visionGT4, on 08 March 2018 - 01:22 AM, said:

you could try being on the front line and getting your own locks

And if they brought enough missiles to support the team all round long because of the type of Mech that they're piloting, that will likely get them killed and wipe part of the firepower a team needs from the field. Not everyone is some "Top-Tier, Sniper-Brawler, Direct-Fire Maniac" like you are. Sure, they can try every once in a while to clear the hill in front of them and look for a cheap and easy hit, but they're likely to suffer damage real fast while waiting for their weapons to lock on. This is a problem that all those non-locking weapons don't suffer from, as you can effectively hit and run with any of them, and it makes all the non-locking weapons overpowered versus LRMs/ATMs/SSRMs. Yeah, add AMS/ECM, and it ends up being a case of "LRMs/ATMs/SSRMs Suck", unfortunately.

Heck, LRMs/ATMs/SSRMs are all in need of a redesign or some new piece of equipment directly because of that issue. I think I may have to go start a Feature Suggestion Thread in regard to that matter.

Of note, however, is this... By doing Spotting Assists for a Teammate, you can actually earn a bit extra for yourself, usually more than what you paid during the round to use a UAV/Strike/'Cool Shot' Consumable. You can possibly earn even more than one Consumable's value. Effectively, you turn both your Enemy targets AND your Teammate into your quote-unquote "Meal Ticket" with everything you'll earn through teamwork. So please avoid seeming toxically anti-teamwork towards others in the MWO Community, and don't count out working with a Teammate just because they might need to fire from behind cover, okay? They might be the difference between your getting hammered, or the enemy feeling some extra sting as they try to shrink back into cover because they couldn't handle the combined-arms hammering they were taking.

One other note crosses my mind... Some of these Mech Pilots use LRMs/ATMs/SSRMs because their computer is slow. Let's try not to push them out of the game because of an unwillingness to work with them, alright? The population is already seeming a tad small.

Khobai, on 08 March 2018 - 02:37 AM, said:

LRMs probably should be able to reacquire a different target if you lose lock on the original target but lock onto a new target while the missiles are still in flight.

That would be nice for more than just LRMs. It would also be useful for ATMs/SSRMs, and it would behave a lot more like Real Life Missiles (and Torpedos) can. Sadly however, I don't think that PGI has enough code in the MWO Game Engine right now to support doing an enhancement to Locking Systems such as this. Maybe I can mention that as part of the Feature Suggestion that I'm currently brewing in my mind, because it would be rather nice to have.

Which reminds me... Is it just me, or does it seem like LRMs/ATMs/SSRMs are taking one hell of a lot longer to lock-on than they did about 1.5 years ago?



~Mr. D. V. "There's something good to be said for Lock-On Weapons, but it feels like they're OverNerfed..." Devnull




[One Edit by Post Author because of a Useful Missed Thought.]

Edited by D V Devnull, 08 March 2018 - 04:25 AM.

[An Innocent Urbie]

working as intended, nothing wrong from what you describe

[Seranov]

Yeah, the part where you said you're at 600m and relying on other people's locks? That's where the problem is.

[Asym]

All of the nerf's over the past year and a half were designed to render the battlespace less effective for two reasons:

Solaris (to lengthen TTK to make small arena FPS'ing last longer and be more enjoyable)

Cryengine: is max'd out and nothing can be done anymore other than replace it....

PGI is leap frogging attempting to find "value" the easiest way.... Mature game cycle antics and so far, nothing innovative going on.

[ForceUser]

I have radar deprivation 60% on every single one of my mechs specifically to do this to LRM boats. As soon as I hear incoming missile I use terrain to break LOS and move in a direction, wait for the beep and then pop back up and feed the LRM boat another face full of lasers. Good LRM boats can sometimes land a few hits but they tend to use their LRMs in mid/close range to lob them over a piece of terrain while using their or someone else's UAV to spot me.

LRMs might work extremely well in lower tiers against new and bad players but against better players you will need to be equally good or switch to something that isn't as situational.

[Leone]

Or learn to dead fire where the hide n' poke mechs pop out of. Has a bonus feature of highlighting where the enemies at if'n they use ams. I mean, Long Range Missiles are a suppression weapon. But yeah, that sounds like a definite case of radar deprivation.

~Leone.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Asym, on 08 March 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

All of the nerf's over the past year and a half were designed to render the battlespace less effective for two reasons:

Solaris (to lengthen TTK to make small arena FPS'ing last longer and be more enjoyable)

Cryengine: is max'd out and nothing can be done anymore other than replace it....

PGI is leap frogging attempting to find "value" the easiest way.... Mature game cycle antics and so far, nothing innovative going on.

the Cryengine is not bad and PGI ...PGI has not the Experience for that Engine
Cry Engine strong by Many Factors like Outdoor Enviroment ...Physics ...the UE4 has the same and other Factors (Big Factors:user friendly -licenses)

Shadow Hunt use the Cryengine 5




War of the Rights use the Cryengine ..

https://www.warofrights.com/Media


https://www.youtube....5&v=ozqPgz07PU0

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 08 March 2018 - 09:20 AM.

[roekenny]

ForceUser, on 08 March 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

I have radar deprivation 60% on every single one of my mechs specifically to do this to LRM boats. As soon as I hear incoming missile I use terrain to break LOS and move in a direction, wait for the beep and then pop back up and feed the LRM boat another face full of lasers.

Better way is as soon as you see a flash from your cockpit (white clan, yellow IS) hide as it means someone has a lock. Soon as you begin to notice that flash you can't unsee it.

Edited by roekenny, 08 March 2018 - 11:40 AM.

[FupDup]

The issue has always been that we require red doritos to get a lock-on, even if we have full line of sight to the target for a long time. Locks should only require LoS as the bare minimum, with the caveat being that if you don't have a dorito the lock takes longer to acquire and is faster to break. Then we don't have to gimp ECM as much anymore.

Stealth Armor can be the exception to this I guess, given its downsides.

[B0oN]

Learn to dumbfire them LRM´s ... no mo´ stupid locks needed ...

[FupDup]

B0oN, on 08 March 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

Learn to dumbfire them LRM´s ... no mo´ stupid locks needed ...

Dumbfire Lurms are incredibly easy to dodge because of the slow projectile speed.

[roekenny]

FupDup, on 08 March 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

Stealth Armor can be the exception to this I guess, given its downsides.

There's a downside?

[Felbombling]

While the missile boat is a viable option, I would suggest making room for a Narc Missile beacon or TAG laser somewhere in the build. Fairly cheap to run tonnage wise, and helpful for a variety of reasons to the whole team. I know the game doesn't reward you handsomely for running Narc, but the pay off is undeniable.

My only other point would be to be second line with those LRMs, not third line. It is tempting to hang waaaay back when the weapon in question has an effective range of 900m, but the most success you will experience with the weapon will be in the 200m-500m range bracket.

[FupDup]

roekenny, on 08 March 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

There's a downside?

Lots of critslot usage, disables your heat dissipation while active.