23 replies to this topic

[Variant1]

so solaris is coming soon but wont it divide the queue since its a separate mm? would it be possible to instead make a game mode called battle royale and add it to qp? that way it would be a 24 ffa chaos match which would be fun. PGI wouldnt need to make new maps they could just use the QP maps instead, it would mean more new maps for qp instead of focusing more on those small 1v1 maps.
But personally i dont think its a good idea.

what are your thoughts guys?

edit: thanks to accused for suggesting a 24 ffa solaris mode

Edited by Variant1, 12 March 2018 - 09:38 AM.

[w4ldO]

the gameengine can only handle two teams

actually coding in deathmatch style is too much to ask. not that we didnt have quake1 FFA DM - 31 years ago

what PGI call solaris is nothing more that glorified, small scale scouting matches without the scouting elements
why people still want to call it solaris is beyond me

if you want to play proper solaris, you better install MW4:Mercenaries


PGI just freaking bluepilled everyone in this forum it seems


#UnrealEngineOrRiot

[ForceUser]

No thanks. I've played a couple of 12v12 FFA matches in the lobby and it sucks big time. It is not the amazing experience people seem to think it will be. They have this nostalgic memory of stomping all over mediocre AI bots in MW4 but the second you fight against actual players will be a rude awakening.

I've played MW4 Solaris, I've played 12v12 FFA in MWO against real players. The difference is vast and the experience will not be fun and I am talking as a relatively skilled player. It will be far, far worse for lower skilled players.

Edited by ForceUser, 12 March 2018 - 09:59 AM.

[Variant1]

w4ldO, on 12 March 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

the gameengine can only handle two teams

actually coding in deathmatch style is too much to ask. not that we didnt have quake1 FFA DM - 31 years ago

what PGI call solaris is nothing more that glorified, small scale scouting matches without the scouting elements
why people still want to call it solaris is beyond me

if you want to play proper solaris, you better install MW4:Mercenaries

but there are no teams in ffa
Also wont solaris divide the mm queues? just wondering

[Bud Crue]

Variant1, on 12 March 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

Also wont solaris divide the mm queues? just wondering

It will most certainly further divide the queues. PGI is aware of this and was so concerned about it that they graciously proposed to shut down the FP conflict for 2-4 weeks so as to spare the regular denizens of that mode the awful wait times that will inevitably occur as many of these team play aficionados inexplicably flee FP to play Solaris. Oddly Russ seems to be backing down on this effort to spare these folks from such misery.

I suspect for at least a few days, maybe a week at the outset following the launch of Solaris, that mode will be the only game in town where you will get a match with minimal to no wait times.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

It may divide the MM queues, but Solaris also brings in more people who were not even playing in quickplay anymore and have just been waiting years for it. That and its only 1v1 and 2v2 matches, so its not a big hit.

[Variant1]

Bud Crue, on 12 March 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

It will most certainly further divide the queues. PGI is aware of this and was so concerned about it that they graciously proposed to shut down the FP conflict for 2-4 weeks so as to spare the regular denizens of that mode the awful wait times that will inevitably occur as many of these team play aficionados inexplicably flee FP to play Solaris. Oddly Russ seems to be backing down on this effort to spare these folks from such misery.

I suspect for at least a few days, maybe a week at the outset following the launch of Solaris, that mode will be the only game in town where you will get a match with minimal to no wait times.

It makes sense since people will want to try it out, its gona suck alot for the fp guys though, im sure some units will be able to duke it out against each other.

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 12 March 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

It may divide the MM queues, but Solaris also brings in more people who were not even playing in quickplay anymore and have just been waiting years for it. That and its only 1v1 and 2v2 matches, so its not a big hit.

more players is good i say, maybe solaris will also bring in more people from steam

[yrrot]

Variant1, on 12 March 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

but there are no teams in ffa

Essentially, the engine is set up with a bunch of logic that relies on a team ID, and only supports two teams. Patching in FFA (probably by using each player as their own "team" for the logic) is likely to be a wide sweeping engine change that is risky, and PGI doesn't seem to want to do that.

[Variant1]

yrrot, on 12 March 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

Essentially, the engine is set up with a bunch of logic that relies on a team ID, and only supports two teams. Patching in FFA (probably by using each player as their own "team" for the logic) is likely to be a wide sweeping engine change that is risky, and PGI doesn't seem to want to do that.

thats a very strange and weird engine if it works that way. But would it be possible to make each individual player blue team on their pov and everyone else team red? Since in mwo both teams see themselves as blue and enemy as red

[Mystere]

w4ldO, on 12 March 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

the gameengine can only handle two teams

Where does it say that CryEngine has such a limitation?

Variant1, on 12 March 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

more players is good i say, maybe solaris will also bring in more people from steam

Well, that's until they get butchered, endlessly and mercilessly.

[yrrot]

Mystere, on 12 March 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

Where does it say that CryEngine has such a limitation?

"Game Engine" as in MWO's implementation of CryEngine.

Variant1, on 12 March 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

thats a very strange and weird engine if it works that way. But would it be possible to make each individual player blue team on their pov and everyone else team red? Since in mwo both teams see themselves as blue and enemy as red

That's how a LOT of game engines work. I think even Unreal Engine has some sort of team flag, even in FFA, but I'm not certain of that. In order to get it so you see everyone else as "Red team" and each player sees themselves as "Blue" team, they have to change how red and blue team work on a bunch of code that assumed two teams exist.

Could they do it, sure. But it isn't some simple "change one line of code" thing. It's a full blown development effort to create an update to the UI, the back end UI code to support it, and a lot of random bits of code that never was planning on seeing FFA.

[Mystere]

yrrot, on 12 March 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

"Game Engine" as in MWO's implementation on top of CryEngine.

FTFY.

If you're going to refer to PGI's frankencode on top of CryEngine, then be specific about it by saying "PGI's code".

[yrrot]

Meh, what you call frankencode, most programmers just call code.

[xRatas]

Well I will be quiting every FFA match I will be placed involuntarily...

1v1, 2v2 and 4v4 would be good modes for solaris IMO. Last one would make good competitive base.

[naterist]

ForceUser, on 12 March 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

No thanks. I've played a couple of 12v12 FFA matches in the lobby and it sucks big time. It is not the amazing experience people seem to think it will be. They have this nostalgic memory of stomping all over mediocre AI bots in MW4 but the second you fight against actual players will be a rude awakening.

I've played MW4 Solaris, I've played 12v12 FFA in MWO against real players. The difference is vast and the experience will not be fun and I am talking as a relatively skilled player. It will be far, far worse for lower skilled players.

We did 24 man free for all during the mazr fw invitational. We used conquest and made the caps a no go zone so we could play till the last man died.

It was the most fun i have had in this game, ever.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

the Gameengine is not the Problem ...TD or Features like IK is for others Companys with Cry (cry have a Physics Engine ) not problem ..is only the less experience from PGI with each Gamefeatures and to make a Game...from Collision to IK ...to Minimap ...Hitreg ...Lags ...DCs ...the List is long ...very long

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 12 March 2018 - 09:15 PM.

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

w4ldO, on 12 March 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

the gameengine can only handle two teams

actually coding in deathmatch style is too much to ask. not that we didnt have quake1 FFA DM - 31 years ago

what PGI call solaris is nothing more that glorified, small scale scouting matches without the scouting elements
why people still want to call it solaris is beyond me

if you want to play proper solaris, you better install MW4:Mercenaries

MW4: Mercenaries was not "proper [S]olaris." The Solaris games PGI is doing are closer to the Grand Tournament in the main Class 6 House arenas -- hence why they named and modeled the new maps after those arenas -- that were typically 1 v 1 and eventually 2 v 2. These were the main event on planet and what everything revolved around. Sure there were exceptions to the rules out in The Reaches or outside the main circuit, but that isn't what PGI is trying to go for.

That said, I would love to have a FFA option, if not in Quicks at least in Private Lobby. I want to run and be in Grand Melees without having to make sure that the game doesn't end if one side kills everyone on the other side.

[w4ldO]

R79TCom1 Night Lanner, on 12 March 2018 - 10:15 PM, said:

MW4: Mercenaries was not "proper [S]olaris." The Solaris games PGI is doing are closer to the Grand Tournament in the main Class 6 House arenas -- hence why they named and modeled the new maps after those arenas -- that were typically 1 v 1 and eventually 2 v 2. These were the main event on planet and what everything revolved around. Sure there were exceptions to the rules out in The Reaches or outside the main circuit, but that isn't what PGI is trying to go for.

That said, I would love to have a FFA option, if not in Quicks at least in Private Lobby. I want to run and be in Grand Melees without having to make sure that the game doesn't end if one side kills everyone on the other side.

i'm not all that deep in lore and canon.
i only go by what past games provided and i see it was a good experience. and many players remember exactly that as "solaris"
mw4:m kinda set an industry standard in that regard.

i have to say a Free For All Last Man Standing Deathmatch (FFA LMS DM) seems to fit as an answer to the question of "what should be the next big thing in this game"
a 1v1 and 2v2 ladder with some fluff......meh level at best

[Brizna]

1vs1 and 2vs2 but specially the former are going to get boring very fast. There is a reason why 1vs1 player run tournaments are rare, it's just an aim and shielding competition that grows old very fast.

Solaris is OK as a side content for a game but if PGI thinks it's going to do anything notable to this game's popularity they are delusional.

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

w4ldO, on 13 March 2018 - 04:17 AM, said:

i'm not all that deep in lore and canon.
i only go by what past games provided and i see it was a good experience. and many players remember exactly that as "solaris"
mw4:m kinda set an industry standard in that regard.

i have to say a Free For All Last Man Standing Deathmatch (FFA LMS DM) seems to fit as an answer to the question of "what should be the next big thing in this game"
a 1v1 and 2v2 ladder with some fluff......meh level at best

Don't get me wrong, if you're not into Lore that's fine. But I was just saying that if you're throwing around the word "proper" when talking about BattleTech related franchises the only thing less proper than MW4 is MechAssault. How you feel about those games as games is debatable but neither were accurate to the BattleTech universe when compared to MechWarriors 1 through 3, Crecent Hawks Inception/Revenge or even, maybe, MechCommander.

Now, will 1v1 and 2v2 get boring? Maybe. I personally love dueling, but when rubber meets the road Brizna might be right and that could get repetitive and old. However, as was also mentioned, PGI does not have the knowledge or staff, or possibly desire, to make a FFA game mode. I would love it if they made FW 12v10 too but that ain't happening, probably for the same reason; they can't change how teams are formed.

What we can hope for is that maybe Solaris 1v1/2v2 is just the start; the easiest thing to get out with all the bells and whistles of 'Mech decorations, new maps, and a new game mode. Then that staff can be moved to making FFA option. Perhaps in Private Lobby first -- since you're already able to have non-standard teams in there -- and eventually moved to Solaris or Quicks.

Lastly, this is something never seen in a BattleTech related game and I am excited to see it in action. I've done FFAs, I've done FFAs in the Virtual World Pods against human opponents. But I've never had a dueling game mode with leaderboards and 'Mech customization.