18 replies to this topic

[Abisha]

Oke so Pgi claim it's not passable to add in game.
so my question is why?
Weapon List, check
selection option check
option to switch AMS off so it can also switch weapon From A to B. check

simple google cryengine came to codding.

Fire
[color=#333333]
Code\GameSDK\GameDll\FireModeParams.cpp[/color]

ammo_type <string> "" The name of the bullet script that the weapon will fire. For the SDK Rifle, this is "RifleBullet" and the script is defined in: Items/XML/Ammos/RifleBullet.xml

so ahh why cant Pgi not do?

[dario03]

I've always wondered this too. We have multiple weapons on mechs, we have weapons that can be disabled, why can't we just make it so putting in a CLBX adds two weapons (slug, spreadshot) to your weapon list and turning one on turns the other one off? Then just put in the seperate ammos.

Edited by dario03, 16 March 2018 - 11:37 AM.

[Bombast]

I suspect it's technically feasible, but made difficult by PGI's butchered engine and how the UI/Controls work.

Because lets be honest - Trying to manage alternative ammo for as many weapons as people boat would be a nightmare if included.

[Brain Cancer]

dario03, on 16 March 2018 - 11:35 AM, said:

I've always wondered this too. We have multiple weapons on mechs, we have weapons that can be disabled, why can't we just make it so putting in a CLBX adds two weapons to your weapon list and turning one on turns the other one off? Then just put in the seperate ammos.

Because it also has a maximum number of weapons the HUD can handle, IIRC 16. Having one weapon take up two spaces would effectively chew up those spaces. Also, knowing PGI either all of your LB's would have to be cluster mode or standard solid shot.

[Mcgral18]

Brain Cancer, on 16 March 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

Because it also has a maximum number of weapons the HUD can handle, IIRC 16. Having one weapon take up two spaces would effectively chew up those spaces. Also, knowing PGI either all of your LB's would have to be cluster mode or standard solid shot.

They would share the same slot
Just like ECM from Counter to Disrupt

[Squiggy McPew]

How many weapons have dual fire modes? If its lots then yeah too much extra work for little gain. If its just the clbx then you make it effectively an ac by allowing for solid shot which makes ac a less useful choice. Seems more a game mechanic issue than a technical one.

[Bombast]

120mm, on 16 March 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

How many weapons have dual fire modes?

SRM
LRM
AC
LB-X
NARC

That are in the game at the moment, anyway.

[roekenny]

Might be issue that in order to get it to work you have to keep both weapon types loaded in game. Now if everyone has a set of alt fire weapons that's a lot of wasted resources on the back end what are stretched thin enough if what the forums say.

[Brain Cancer]

120mm, on 16 March 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

How many weapons have dual fire modes? If its lots then yeah too much extra work for little gain. If its just the clbx then you make it effectively an ac by allowing for solid shot which makes ac a less useful choice. Seems more a game mechanic issue than a technical one.

You mean which should?

LB-X, ATMs,

Heck, machineguns have alt-fire modes in tabletop, a no-heat low ROF and a heat-em-up higher ROF mode.

And of course standard ACs, which get to use a variety of ammo that can't exist in MWO because there's no ammo switching. And LRMs. And SRMs for the same reasons. And NARC (explosive pods, haywire, etc).

Even flamers are supposed to be dual-mode: damage or heat.

Weapons lose a lot of depth because they're stuck in one mode.

[evilauthor]

Bombast, on 16 March 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

SRM
LRM
AC
LB-X
NARC

That are in the game at the moment, anyway.

Most of these weapons have more than two ammo types, so it's less switching between them than cycling between multiple ammo types.

Although I think LRMs would benefit hugely from being able to use multiple kinds of ammo. Why? Minefields. LRMs are the goto weapon for deploying and clearing them. Clever use of mine fields can reshape the battlefield as far as good and bad fighting positions go.

OTOH, if PGI were going to include minefields, I think there would have been a consumable for it by now.

Which isn't to say that other ammo types aren't useful.

Inferno SRMs - SRMs that deal heat instead of damage, like Flamers!

Armor Piercing Ammo - Has chance of dealing internal critical damage through intact armor. Has half the ammo count per ton compared to standard ammo. Standard ACs only.

Guided AC Ammo - Also standard ACs only. Has a lock on mechanic like LRMs, but not the arcing fire. Shots fired will follow the target if you have a lock, but have a lousy turn rate just good enough to turn a near miss into a hit.

LB-X solid shot - Welp... the IS AC-10 is now obsolete... if it didn't have its own alt ammo above. Would anyone in this game even use cluster ammo if solid shot were available?

NARC explosive shot - Fires an actual damaging missile instead of a tracking beacon, so the NARC isn't entirely useless if no one in the PUG brought LRMs.

[Brain Cancer]

evilauthor, on 16 March 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

Most of these weapons have more than two ammo types, so it's less switching between them than cycling between multiple ammo types.

Although I think LRMs would benefit hugely from being able to use multiple kinds of ammo. Why? Minefields. LRMs are the goto weapon for deploying and clearing them. Clever use of mine fields can reshape the battlefield as far as good and bad fighting positions go.

Swarm munitions would turn LRMs fired into deathballs into AOE weaponry, as missiles that don't designate the target pick up secondary targets nearby instead and aim for them.

[Throe]

Brain Cancer, on 16 March 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

Because it also has a maximum number of weapons the HUD can handle, IIRC 16. Having one weapon take up two spaces would effectively chew up those spaces. Also, knowing PGI either all of your LB's would have to be cluster mode or standard solid shot.

I really don't see this being part of the real problem. The most LB-X ACs feasibly mountable is ~4, meaning you're going to "chew up" an extra ~4 slots, and leave yourself with right around 8 slots of wiggle room within the 16 slot limit. Provided this 16 slot limit is a hard limit beyond which the Mechlab will not allow you to mount further weapons, it really doesn't sound like an issue at all to me, to be limited to 4 LB-X ACs plus another 8 weapons of your choosing...

[Brain Cancer]

Throe, on 16 March 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

I really don't see this being part of the real problem. The most LB-X ACs feasibly mountable is ~4, meaning you're going to "chew up" an extra ~4 slots, and leave yourself with right around 8 slots of wiggle room within the 16 slot limit. Provided this 16 slot limit is a hard limit beyond which the Mechlab will not allow you to mount further weapons, it really doesn't sound like an issue at all to me, to be limited to 4 LB-X ACs plus another 8 weapons of your choosing...

https://mwo.smurfy-n...cc9f9569aa23b37

I'm sorry, what was that?

Plus, if we go with ammo switching, there's a long, long list of weapons that would then also need the same treatment. Multiple smaller missile launchers like ATMs (which are actually 3 different ammo types) would choke the system.

[The6thMessenger]

I think why they wouldn't do it is because they wanted the C-AC doing burst-fire. Maybe it's technically feasible to just change the pellet count and spread dynamically, but they couldn't code it to change volley count.

I don't really know though.

[Seranov]

Brain Cancer, on 16 March 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

Heck, machineguns have alt-fire modes in tabletop, a no-heat low ROF and a heat-em-up higher ROF mode.

They have the E.Y.E Divine Cybermancy SMG fire modes? Full auto and F U L L A U T O!

[Brain Cancer]

Seranov, on 16 March 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

They have the E.Y.E Divine Cybermancy SMG fire modes? Full auto and F U L L A U T O!

Basically, you can set MGs to no-heat (standard stats) or high ROF mode, which isn't as controlled firepower-wise but has a good chance each turn of dealing extra damage and burning ammo accordingly.

High ROF mode you roll 1d6 (1d6-1 for LMG, 1d6+1 for HMG). Generate that much heat, deliver that much damage instead of the normal amount, expend ammo equal to triple the damage. The equivalent in MWO would be having your MGs go into a spinup mode like RACs, generating higher ROF and heat after a certain point in the bar is reached (and IMHO, jamming if you max the bar).

Edited by Brain Cancer, 16 March 2018 - 03:15 PM.

[Exilyth]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder_LRM would be really nice to have.

That aside, with optional TT rules, L-/AMS could be toggled to offensive mode and fired as a normal weapon (but it doesn't intercept missiles while in offensive mode).

[InvictusLee]

LRMs with cluster munitions would be absolutely devistating! Imagine... missiles, litterally raining shotgun pellets on all your cheetas and pirannahs...

[Khobai]

we can have weapons with two different firing modes

we cant have weapons with two different firing modes that use two different ammo types

so like it would be possible to have a CLBX switch between slug and cluster rounds. But both firing modes would have to use the same ammo type.

its not canon with battletech, but PGI should do it anyway.

Edited by Khobai, 17 March 2018 - 11:21 AM.