30 replies to this topic

[pjnt]

yrrot, on 20 March 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

To say that PGI is lacking programming ability to create a more robust matchmaker is nonsense. They already have it, they've done it, and the results were drastically longer matchmaking times--especially in off-peak times--and lots of other complaints. Solo players complained about being matched with groups. Small groups didn't like having to meet the 3/3/3/3 requirements to matchmake. Big groups didn't like limited group sizes.

The end result: a matchmaker that tries to only roughly approximate skill-based matching in solo queue for shorter wait times, and group queue that only uses tonnage limits and group sizes to match up people to fill teams. And...stomps still happened. FW matchmaking has been crazy since they initially rolled it out.

Solaris is kind of the ideal setting to use Elo based matching, especially since they are breaking each player down to elo ranks in each division.

I heard that and mentioned it in one of my replies above. I also am led to understand that they listened to the 'people' and chose to go with the current set up over a more balanced one but with longer wait times.

I agree with you that I think they have the skill, but with Duncan Aravain that there are other issues at work here.

I know from other games similar to this, pretty much no one has nailed the perfect MM. I was just uncertain why MWO had chosen one which was clearly working in a strange way, well, strange to me. Now I get it:

1. Everyone hated waiting for balanced games more than stomping around playing the game so they brought in a MM to address it.
2. The player base is too low to let the game function as built and remove waiting for games.

There are a number of other bits that can add to it, but these look like the 2 core reasons.Solve 2. and 1. goes away.

Getting in new players should be solved with the fallout from MW5. Good.

Luckily the players from MW5 will have played through the game and not meet the incredible learning curve this game has, so they should survive the initial shock and hang around. But that's a topic for a different thread.

Thanks again everyone for your time on this, got the info I needed. Would have been nice if the search function above FUNCTIONED and not had to yap here, but I am not looking for miracles today.

[Brain Cancer]

It also hurts that the MM makes it's teams one at a time.

That means if there's not enough people to fill the bill properly on team #2, the MM proceeds to dip lower. This inevitably means one team gets a few stinkers, and that's all it takes to start a game past the point of even the best carrying it.

[Scyther]

Some valid and not-so-valid points made above, but also keep in mind that 37 matches spread across just two time periods is not a very significant sample.

[Jackal Noble]

MadBadger, on 20 March 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

Some valid and not-so-valid points made above, but also keep in mind that 37 matches spread across just two time periods is not a very significant sample.

Would a better sample be like the last 3 months?

[Scyther]

Certainly it would, depending on how many matches were played (500 or better yet 1,000+), on how many different days, and how accurate of records had been kept.

I'm not saying the OP's results are way off or anything, just that extrapolating too far from a very small data set isn't reliable.

[Alan Hicks]

This was a relaxing thread, some still believe the MM works at all.

It may do what its programed to, but it commonly fails to bring balanced teams together.

Another question could be why won't the population of this game grows as we would all like ? Time and deteriorating changes have shown us the reasons. Even with a robust number of players around I doubt they could refine matches to be balanced. The MM is the heart of the game, and over the years, there has been done little to adjust it correctly.

Sadly, MWO is not managed as we all would appreciate, so at this point, it doesn't really matter what happens next. Players who have stayed over this whole time accepted the issue and developed a tolerance toward bad matches or teams.

Sometimes you just want to throw the game to the bucket when there's no difference whether you made under 100 or over 1K damage. Your individual contribution to the game was nothing. There it is, another loss. Now give thanks to the amazing MM for giving you and your team that awesome experience.

Edited by Alan Hicks, 21 March 2018 - 03:56 AM.

[UnofficialOperator]

Samial, on 20 March 2018 - 05:53 AM, said:

Not from what i've asked in chat almost every match.. i always get a response of between tier 5 and tier 1 in the same team every match no fail, there is no way that many people are lying, and if they are why lie for no reason at all..

I see tier 1s and tier 5s all the time in my teams don't worry about unofficial operator hes full of it.. He would not believe you even if you do prove it.. The tiers are all mixed these days and match maker is busted ***..

Of course I would believe it if it is proven, I am not like you. Anyway I am sick of your BS, spreading lies and trolling bad info all over the forum. I'm going to try to get a Dev to chime in on this.

[SeventhSL]

It is not match maker. It is the results of heavily team focused play. Games like that always produce more stomps because a small difference in team cohesion translates to a big advantage for one side.

Also the kill count is not a real indication. Once your team is up a kill they get aggressive so if you are highly damaged it is a lot harder for the enemy to finish you off. 12-0 where the winners are in good health is a stomp. 12-0 where the winners are bleeding badly and mostly cored was actually a close game.

Edited by SeventhSL, 20 March 2018 - 04:54 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

sceii, on 20 March 2018 - 04:34 AM, said:

More skilled teams are, more stomps you will get.
People who know how to play can easily capitalize on small advantages.

Not quite correct. The more skilled players on one side, the higher the chance of a stomp.


The issue is the MM just looks at Tier. Not how good someone is, to then balance. Given Tier is not an indication of how good a player actually is.

What I mean is this - There are some players with an match score of 170avg in Tier1 and players like me with an average of 450avg+ also in Tier1. The matchmaker treats us as equals.

What it should do it match by Tier to find a match and then try balance players as a subset. Problem is it can't because of population issue but also because of weight class of the mech they are in, which adds further complexity.

The issue is, and always will be, how PSR works. It lets too many people into T1. Simple as that.


If there are 3-4 good players on either side, generally speaking, the match ends somewhere around 12-8. If there are 2-3 good players on a single side it's generally 12-2

[justcallme A S H]

Samial, on 20 March 2018 - 05:53 AM, said:

Not from what i've asked in chat almost every match.. i always get a response of between tier 5 and tier 1 in the same team every match no fail, there is no way that many people are lying, and if they are why lie for no reason at all..

I see tier 1s and tier 5s all the time in my teams don't worry about unofficial operator hes full of it.. He would not believe you even if you do prove it.. The tiers are all mixed these days and match maker is busted ***..

You play in Oceanic time zone. That is what happens. From the hours of about 7pm - 10pm AU time. Outside of that Unofficial is right as there is enough population to stop it.

End of the day it is a population issue, always has been. There have been T5s in with T1s (during Oceanic phase) for over 18 months now from my rough recollection. I know I gave screenshots to Tina like... Maybe 12 months ago? Before the match maker changes as proof it was happening and it still is, it just takes a few mins longer to "pool" people.

The MM was changed but there is never enough people to fill the kiddie pool so it expands and puts people from the big boy pool in.

If I am playing Oceanic cycle (which is rare for me mid-week, due to wait times) I regularly wait 5-10mins for a match. By the time I get one I know, without a shadow of a doubt, I'm gonna have T5s in my match. Outside of Oceanic, given the names I see in matches etc, it's rarely putting people below T3 in games (US/EU peak times).

Edited by justcallme A S H, 20 March 2018 - 05:03 PM.

[UnofficialOperator]

justcallme A S H, on 20 March 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

You play in Oceanic time zone. That is what happens. From the hours of about 7pm - 10pm AU time. Outside of that Unofficial is right as there is enough population to stop it.

End of the day it is a population issue, always has been. There have been T5s in with T1s (during Oceanic phase) for over 18 months now from my rough recollection. I know I gave screenshots to Tina like... Maybe 12 months ago? Before the match maker changes as proof it was happening and it still is, it just takes a few mins longer to "pool" people.

The MM was changed but there is never enough people to fill the kiddie pool so it expands and puts people from the big boy pool in.

If I am playing Oceanic cycle (which is rare for me mid-week, due to wait times) I regularly wait 5-10mins for a match. By the time I get one I know, without a shadow of a doubt, I'm gonna have T5s in my match. Outside of Oceanic, given the names I see in matches etc, it's rarely putting people below T3 in games (US/EU peak times).

Pretty sure this has stopped since their patch notes about only T1 with T2 and max T3. Sorry you got to prove it.