39 replies to this topic

[Tiewolf]

Respec costs are gone. That was the right decision! Now there is the opportunity to get rid of XP & GXP entirely.

So why not grant skill nodes directly from matches? No converting cbills&xp anymore and much more user friendly. All HXP can be deleted if not used till the change. Skill nodes can be bought with mc directly.

Or even better just get rid of everything except c-bills and mc. Why not buy skills direct for c-bills? Much easier and no converting of currencies.

Edited by Tiewolf, 21 March 2018 - 04:36 AM.

[El Bandito]

I personally think the skill tree is not needed in the first place. One thing is for sure, PGI should not allow the players to purchase SP with premium currency. Purchasing power right away instead of grinding for hours takes it to P2W territory--in fact, Star Wars Battlefront 2 had huge shitstorm over just such a thing.

[Phoolan Devi]

Errrrm.....no!

If there is a skill tree, there need to be xp!

Either that or no skill tree at all (which would be the best)

[Garran Tana]

It would be much better if we just got straight SP for a match and bonus c-bills when the mech is mastered. 2 SP for a decent match, +1 if it's a win, + 1 or 2 for outstanding results, x2 SP for first victory, 1 SP for bad performance and 0 if you did close to nothing.

Edited by Garran Tana, 21 March 2018 - 05:08 AM.

[Vellron2005]

XP and GXP make sense.. You need literal experience to learn how a mech works, behaves and how to modify it.

Such knowledge should never be able to be bought for MC, cose' that's P2W..

What PGI SHOULD do is give us a XP sink for after the mech is mastered.. like giving us the ability to make the mech bring in more cbills or GXP.. a 20% boost for 500.000 XP sounds ok, and is still less than the 30% boost for hero mechs..

Maybe some other usefull things in exchange for 500K XP?

Like adding the ability to carry ECM or MASC, Tacticon or JJ's?

Or perhapse the ability to make a "Named mech" - one who's custom user-defined name is seen instead of the variant name, like in hero mechs? (misuse to be reported and names agains COC unavailable)

We need a useful XP sink other than converting XP to GXP!

Edited by Vellron2005, 21 March 2018 - 05:35 AM.

[Asym]

El Bandito, on 21 March 2018 - 04:40 AM, said:

I personally think the skill tree is not needed in the first place. One thing is for sure, PGI should not allow the players to purchase SP with premium currency. Purchasing power right away instead of grinding for hours takes it to P2W territory--in fact, Star Wars Battlefront 2 had huge shitstorm over just such a thing.

Many of us have been saying that the Skill Tree had nothing to do with "Skill" from day one and have taken all sorts of verbal abuse doing so. The entire ST debacle has cost PGI hundreds of players and tens of thousands of dollars in lost revenue because the ST and the nerfs ruined mechs we had bought with real money. !

It is completely illogical that you would be issued a mech with 1/3 of its combat effectiveness and then, have to pay for premium time because without it, it was taking weeks to master a mech....... the ST was not needed: all PGI had to do was use the existing system on "one mech" instead of three mechs.

A successful F2P game can be P2W and many are doing quite well ! Why? Because a vast majority of player do not want "e-Sports" nor care at all about "competitions" or "Leader boards": average players play because it is FUN and if they spend a little cash for "something new" or "unique", who cares......life isn't fair or equitable....

So, the premium Cruiser I received in a "gift box" my brother purchased as a gift is P2W? Is the premium Cruiser making me a e-Sports giant? Does it grant me extreme powers that wipe out everyone else? NO: it's a team game, just like MWO.... A F2P that has P2W niches just like MWO has mech pack sales that contain unique variants. The difference is: they are successful and MWO isn't........why? Because their game is "fun" despite some toxic players and MWO isn't because toxic players hijacked the game and made it less than fun by exploiting game play "allowances" PGI allowed and the other game didn't...... There, there is the bottle line. One corporation was vigilant and the other wasn't: One has a larger international player base and the other is just about gone.....

MONEY is the root of all evil. But, money is how we live, work and play and successful game understand that the balance is the hard to measure metric called "fun..." F2P does not = fair. And fair is not dependent of free...... Fun is the actual metric in games that succeed and fun always has a cost...... Good games have figured that out.

[w4ldO]

solaris is going to add yet another currency.
get over with all those currencies, please.

grinding is never fun

having to pilot an unskilled mech and thereby be a liability to your team is no fun.
hearing someone say "this is a new mech" i roll my eyes, because i know how it feels

just let us buy skillpoints for cbills and get over with all those XP nonsense

Vellron2005, on 21 March 2018 - 05:35 AM, said:

XP and GXP make sense.. You need literal experience to learn how a mech works, behaves and how to modify it.

back in my world of warcraft days when my guild was bored we went onto some roleplaying servers and had some fun with folks like you

[Cy Mitchell]

El Bandito, on 21 March 2018 - 04:40 AM, said:

I personally think the skill tree is not needed in the first place. One thing is for sure, PGI should not allow the players to purchase SP with premium currency. Purchasing power right away instead of grinding for hours takes it to P2W territory--in fact, Star Wars Battlefront 2 had huge shitstorm over just such a thing.

I do not know anything about SWBF2 nor do I care about it but in MWO having the ability to skill up a Mech with currency would not be P2W. It is more like pay to be on equal footing. An unskilled Mech is at a severe disadvantage versus Mechs that are fully skilled. If a person was to use C-Bills, MC or cash to skill up a Mech then he is just saving himself a boatload of grinding and putting his Mech on the same level as someone who has a lot of time to play the game and grind out SP.

I would be fine with no skill tree. None of the nodes are "skill" related anyway. But if it stays then I think the current system of XP and GXP works fine.

[Tiewolf]

El Bandito, on 21 March 2018 - 04:40 AM, said:

I personally think the skill tree is not needed in the first place. One thing is for sure, PGI should not allow the players to purchase SP with premium currency. Purchasing power right away instead of grinding for hours takes it to P2W territory--in fact, Star Wars Battlefront 2 had huge shitstorm over just such a thing.

I understand your angle, but is it ok that longtime players sit on 10k+ GSP and can master any mech instantly just because they started playing earlier then new players? Why is that ok and buying SP with MC not? How many GSP do you have?

Phoolan Devi, on 21 March 2018 - 04:40 AM, said:

Errrrm.....no!

If there is a skill tree, there need to be xp!

Either that or no skill tree at all (which would be the best)

Can you eleborate? Why has there to be XP becuase of the skill tree?

[Nightbird]

It wouldn't hurt PGI to give out free skill node unlocks (GSP) with events instead of GXP. They can also give out 91 free GSP with pre-orders (keep in mind there are 3 mechs at least)

[Tiewolf]

Garran Tana, on 21 March 2018 - 04:55 AM, said:

It would be much better if we just got straight SP for a match and bonus c-bills when the mech is mastered. 2 SP for a decent match, +1 if it's a win, + 1 or 2 for outstanding results, x2 SP for first victory, 1 SP for bad performance and 0 if you did close to nothing.

Thats exactly what i propose!

[El Bandito]

Tiewolf, on 21 March 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

I understand your angle, but is it ok that longtime players sit on 10k+ GSP and can master any mech instantly just because they started playing earlier then new players? Why is that ok and buying SP with MC not? How many GSP do you have?

We veterans got those SPs thanks to our thousands of hours of grind. Fair is fair. You want skilled mechs, you grind for it.

Rampage, on 21 March 2018 - 06:33 AM, said:

I do not know anything about SWBF2 nor do I care about it but in MWO having the ability to skill up a Mech with currency would not be P2W. It is more like pay to be on equal footing.

No it is pay to win, period. I am baffled that you think any other wise. Two equally skilled newbies enter the game; one has the money to instantly skill up, while one has not. The one that pays will have big edge over the one that did not.

Asym, on 21 March 2018 - 05:51 AM, said:

Many of us have been saying that the Skill Tree had nothing to do with "Skill" from day one and have taken all sorts of verbal abuse doing so. The entire ST debacle has cost PGI hundreds of players and tens of thousands of dollars in lost revenue because the ST and the nerfs ruined mechs we had bought with real money. !

It is completely illogical that you would be issued a mech with 1/3 of its combat effectiveness and then, have to pay for premium time because without it, it was taking weeks to master a mech....... the ST was not needed: all PGI had to do was use the existing system on "one mech" instead of three mechs.

A successful F2P game can be P2W and many are doing quite well ! Why? Because a vast majority of player do not want "e-Sports" nor care at all about "competitions" or "Leader boards": average players play because it is FUN and if they spend a little cash for "something new" or "unique", who cares......life isn't fair or equitable....

So, the premium Cruiser I received in a "gift box" my brother purchased as a gift is P2W? Is the premium Cruiser making me a e-Sports giant? Does it grant me extreme powers that wipe out everyone else? NO: it's a team game, just like MWO.... A F2P that has P2W niches just like MWO has mech pack sales that contain unique variants. The difference is: they are successful and MWO isn't........why? Because their game is "fun" despite some toxic players and MWO isn't because toxic players hijacked the game and made it less than fun by exploiting game play "allowances" PGI allowed and the other game didn't...... There, there is the bottle line. One corporation was vigilant and the other wasn't: One has a larger international player base and the other is just about gone.....

MONEY is the root of all evil. But, money is how we live, work and play and successful game understand that the balance is the hard to measure metric called "fun..." F2P does not = fair. And fair is not dependent of free...... Fun is the actual metric in games that succeed and fun always has a cost...... Good games have figured that out.

All of that comment cannot deny that P2W is not fun for those who are doing honest grind, in any game. And since the majority of players in MWO are doing the honest grind, encouraging P2W will ensure this game's demise. The most popular F2P game--League of Legends--does not use P2W method.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 March 2018 - 06:56 AM.

[Cy Mitchell]

El Bandito, on 21 March 2018 - 06:47 AM, said:

No it is pay to win, period. I am baffled that you think any other wise. Two equally skilled newbies enter the game; one has the money to instantly skill up, while one has not. The one that pays will have big edge over the one that did not.

It is pay to save time so you can compete on a level playing field. That is the core money making theme of many F2P games. Those same two newbies are going to be facing off with a bunch of people with fully skilled Mechs because they have tons of GSP or GXP that they have earned by putting many hours into the game. Now the newbies can invest the hours to get their equipment on the same level or they can spend money to bring their equipment to the same level. If they have the option to get to the same level without paying real cash then it is not pay to win, it is pay to save time.

[El Bandito]

Rampage, on 21 March 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

It is pay to save time so you can compete on a level playing field. That is the core money making theme of many F2P games. Those same two newbies are going to be facing off with a bunch of people with fully skilled Mechs because they have tons of GSP or GXP that they have earned by putting many hours into the game. Now the newbies can invest the hours to get their equipment on the same level or they can spend money to bring their equipment to the same level. If they have the option to get to the same level without paying real cash then it is not pay to win, it is pay to save time.

Nope, that argument doesn't fly. Instant leveling is P2W. Premium time/booster is not, as it still requires you to play the game. There is a difference.

[Snowbluff]

I think the term "Pay to Skip," what Totalbiscuit calls it, is more applicable. Simply put, you cannot pay for a benefit that can't already be acquired in game with anything other than time. You don't have an unfair advantage, because people will already have access to this benefit.

I actually like skilling mechs, but I do wish it took a little less time. Not having a skilled mech does mean less time with a maxed out one, which does affect my performance. *grumbles at this Madcat-b*

[Nightbird]

I agree it's just pay to skip time. Pay2win is equipment/skills that other players cannot obtain in a reasonable amount of time. The maximum theoretical advantage you can have is someone with 91 nodes versus someone with 0 nodes, and the player with 0 nodes can earn that in 2 days of playing. (Completely from other MMOs where it takes weeks of playing to advance to a level cap) In practice, most people on your and your opponent's team will have their mechs skilled out, free or paid, so the advantage is further minimized.

Just let people pay money to PGI so they can keep producing content for us. (MC for nodes)

Edited by Nightbird, 21 March 2018 - 08:54 AM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I don't see any benefit in just getting automatic skill nodes instead of cbills and XP.

[MechaBattler]

It's an unnecessary edge for paying players. Especially new paying players. Someone could buy all their skills with purchases of C-bills form the store and drop fully mastered in their first mech for their first match.

Edited by MechaBattler, 21 March 2018 - 10:02 AM.

[Tiewolf]

El Bandito, on 21 March 2018 - 06:47 AM, said:

We veterans got those SPs thanks to our thousands of hours of grind. Fair is fair. You want skilled mechs, you grind for it.

So it is fair for you that just because in the past someone bought some modules can skill new mechs instantly and has in your opinion a p2win advantage? New players have not only the experience disadvantage but are forced to play 50+ matches in inferior mechs against veterans with full skilled mechs even if the mech is a brand new pack? Sorry but that seems not fair to me and I guess you look at it with your 10k+ GSP owner glasses. I personally would never buy gsp for mc but I would give the new players the chance and pgi the revenues to develop the game. For me it is not p2win because you can achieve it in game and it's just an optimization - ok an optimization with some impact but not game breaking or p2win.

[MechaBattler]

Yeah just screw those non paying new players!