29 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

dont buff is lasers too much. then il have to run laser vomit on both sides.

[Alexander of Macedon]

IS laser vom is good, it's just unfortunately best at sustained medium-close range brawls, when the natural QP behavior is to nascar or hide with lots of long-range poking at anyone who exposes too long.

What would be nice would be some sort of buff to IS ER lasers. No point running them on most builds, they're too hot without getting the extra damage (or full range) that cERs get--you need to carry more and still get worse trades. Well, IS ERMLas maybe. Large and Small are workable.

[justcallme A S H]

Alexander of Macedon, on 22 March 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

IS laser vom is good, it's just unfortunately best at sustained medium-close range brawls, when the natural QP behavior is to nascar or hide with lots of long-range poking at anyone who exposes too long.

What would be nice would be some sort of buff to IS ER lasers. No point running them on most builds, they're too hot without getting the extra damage (or full range) that cERs get--you need to carry more and still get worse trades. Well, IS ERMLas maybe. Large and Small are workable.

Long range poking in QP? Ah... No.

Anyway put proper Laser builds on IS mechs - Trade all day long outside your med-close range, which just isn't accurate.

GHP-5H
WHM-6D

As two examples that work fine.

[GoatHILL]

El Bandito, on 22 March 2018 - 04:00 PM, said:

IS ML and ERML are in a sad shape compared to CERML.

They are in sad shape to every other laser when you take into account they are the mainstay of IS energy weapons. The nerf a few patches ago was totally uncalled for period.

[PocketYoda]

I feel the real issue with IS lasers is my range and weight.. "If" i can actually fit enough onto a mech to make a difference Clanners take me apart long before i get into range to use most of them..

Clan stuff range is just insane these days with quirks and skill trees they can effectively hit me from across Polar or frozen city with impunity..

Its gotten a bit silly.

Edited by Samial, 23 March 2018 - 02:19 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Look at the builds I posted.

There is a negligible range discrepancy to Clan. You're talking about 40m between the ERML, which are the basis of the Laser Vom power. This is basic Mechlab 101.

If cannot get into a position "long before" you get picked apart, the lasers that are the issue.

You can also build a BLR-1G to have more range than a Supernova... So...

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 March 2018 - 02:56 AM.

[JohnnyWayne]

LT. HARDCASE, on 22 March 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

You're saying it's not true? Does the team composition of the MWOWC need to be trotted out for the bajillionth time? Surely the rosters of the best players would overflow with IS chassis picks if the IS tech were on equal or better footing.

Oh yes, this argument. You know as far as I am aware they used a MWO Version from may, june? Last year? So yeah, there you go. I see a lot of known people playing Rifleman lasers boats but these have to suck right, because they are IS?

This community. So bad at a game that they love so much. Yet forcing their opinion upon all. Of course El Bandito is around aswell. This community will never change.

It is not IS lasers that cause laser vomit, it is the lack of valid brawling options. You heared here the at least third time. But you will forget again anyways and cry clans op in at best two days from now. This game is doomed because of the people who play it and I will enjoy it as long as I can until the likes of you (not you as a person but as a group) will make it unplayable.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 23 March 2018 - 04:35 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

justcallme A S H, on 22 March 2018 - 09:33 PM, said:

Long range poking in QP? Ah... No.

Anyway put proper Laser builds on IS mechs - Trade all day long outside your med-close range, which just isn't accurate.

GHP-5H
WHM-6D

As two examples that work fine.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Typically a third to half of any given QP team is running ERLLas/ATMs/lurms/gauss/PPCs/AC2s and sitting 600-800m away from the enemy.

Both of those builds are ideal at ~400m range. Solidly inside medium range. At that range, clan 'mechs can run HLLas/ERMLas and drastically outdamage you. Or they can run ERLLas and do full damage at close to double your range.

You seem to be missing the point I was making, which is that IS laservom is good within its range if you're fighting in the open/brawling. If you're poking at 400m, clans do better damage and can get back into cover, negating their higher heat and longer CDs. If you're fighting beyond 500m, clans also retain their full damage much longer on top of being able to retreat to cover.

The only situation where a LLas/ERMLas mix will be decent is in FP (provided the attacking team actually pushes instead of hesitating forever). That, or if you're baiting your teammates and only shooting at enemies who have better targets.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 23 March 2018 - 07:58 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Alexander of Macedon, on 23 March 2018 - 07:58 AM, said:

Both of those builds are ideal at ~400m range. Solidly inside medium range. At that range, clan 'mechs can run HLLas/ERMLas and drastically outdamage you. Or they can run ERLLas and do full damage at close to double your range.

Both of those builds have a 10% range quirk that puts their ideal range at 432 meters if you take the typical 10% range on the Firepower tree that you need to to get the heat gen stuff. The Clan build doing the same will be at 440 meters. Do you realliy think 8 meters makes that much of a difference?

As for poking, I wouldn't even say that it's strictly a win for Clans, either. You have to make one more peak with an IS 'Mech than a Clan 'Mech would, but you have a high probability of getting away with it thanks to the shorter duration.

Alexander of Macedon, on 23 March 2018 - 07:58 AM, said:

The only situation where a LLas/ERMLas mix will be decent is in FP (provided the attacking team actually pushes instead of hesitating forever). That, or if you're baiting your teammates and only shooting at enemies who have better targets.

1. FP is also the only place this comparison is really relevant

2. Being pushed on is exactly the opposite of what you want to happen when you are running this sort of mid-range laser vomit, especially the IS flavor with its lower sustained output.

[Eisenhorne]

Going from purely anecdotal evidence at this point, my HBR-PRIME (2 HL, 4 ERML) is currently at 2.07 W/L, 2.13 K/D (43 games). My TDR-5S-T (3 LL, 6 ML) is at 1.45 W/L, 2.20 K/D (71 games).

These are roughly equivalent mechs on the Clan and IS side in role (midrange laservomit), and in weight class. I do about the same in both of them. So at least for my playstyle, I don't see much advantage in one over the other when it comes to punching power of lasers. The HBR seems to be a bit more survivable, but that's probably because it has ECM and that makes you invulnerable in QP.