14 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Awhile ago I wrote up a guide and put it on steam for new players to look over after some time playing faction play and finding that the average builds that players were using were abysmal. Since Clan decks are rather easy to assemble while IS ones require a bit more finesse to setup I included a large list of builds and tutorials on how to use them.

Here is the guide in full:
http://steamcommunit.../?id=1289721706

This was put out before the Annihilator was all too well known, and is mostly aimed at solo players jumping into the mode rather than teams, so a dual Annihilator deck might not be the best option for them and was not included.


What are your thoughts on the guide?

Edited by Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, 29 March 2018 - 09:58 AM.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Grasshopper heavy PPC build needs lasors in the side torsos to push the PPC's to the high mounts. Without the additional lasors the PPCs default to the low mounts near waist level - which is bad.

Many mechs are like that unfortunately.





Edit: Side torsos instead of ct.

Edited by Jack Booted Thug, 29 March 2018 - 10:38 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

I actually just made one of those HPPC grasshoppers last night, things legit. XL330, 4 ML, 2 HPPC's. A bit fragile, but if I'm getting side torsos blown off I'm probably just about to die anyway.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Eisenhorne, on 29 March 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

I actually just made one of those HPPC grasshoppers last night, things legit. XL330, 4 ML, 2 HPPC's. A bit fragile, but if I'm getting side torsos blown off I'm probably just about to die anyway.

Dual HPPC is a magical thing. I love a pair of them on my Dragon, the thing doesn't even jump but its quick and the guns are right beside the cockpit. Far from fragile though. I took over 505 damage last match and was only down to 40% hp, both side torsos still attached. Fun little mech.

[Vellron2005]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 29 March 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Awhile ago I wrote up a guide and put it on steam for new players to look over after some time playing faction play and finding that the average builds that players were using were abysmal. Since Clan decks are rather easy to assemble while IS ones require a bit more finesse to setup I included a large list of builds and tutorials on how to use them.

Here is the guide in full:
http://steamcommunit.../?id=1289721706

This was put out before the Annihilator was all too well known, and is mostly aimed at solo players jumping into the mode rather than teams, so a dual Annihilator deck might not be the best option for them and was not included.


What are your thoughts on the guide?

I commend your post for helping new players (not that we have much of those)

I'm not even gonna bust your chops for being an LRM hater, but will say this:

Since you included various play styles, you should have mentioned LRMs, since in FP LRMs can indeed be extremely useful in some situations and on many maps. True, they are atrocious on some maps, but on some, especially on Siege: defend, you simply can't deny a good LRM defense is not an option.

Since I know you're gonna say "never bring LRMs to FP, LRMs are bad, yada yada yada.. I'm gonna fill in this list for you, so that people can make up their own minds if they wanna try it or not.

First off - LRMs in FP - USE them on Alpine, Polar, Tourmaline, Grim Plexus, Frozen, Canyon, Bog and any Siege:Defend map, except Grim Portico.

DO NOT USE them on Siege attack maps except Sulfurous rift, but only when pushing Alpha gate. Also, don't use them on maps not mentioned above.

FP LRM Dropdeck builds (Clan):

Dropdeck 1)

2 x Supernova SNV-A (4 x LRM20 + 4 x CERSL + 1JJ and as much ammo as you can fit. Alternatively, bring 2 x LRM20+2 x LRM15 + 4 x CERSL for extra ammo) Skill for full missile nodes, velocity, range and sensors, with 2 cool shots and some survival. You wanna bring 2500-3500 LRM missiles worth of ammo. Use highest rating CXL engine.

1 x Arctic Cheetah (6 x ERSL + NARC / 6 CMG + NARC)

1 x Myst Lynx (8 x CHMG + 3 CERSL)

Dropdeck 2)

Same as above, but instead of Supernova SNV-A, you can use 2 Madcats MCII-4 with the same builds, or 2 Highlanders HGN-IIC-B (4 x LRM20 + 2ERML) or a combination of any of the three.

FP LRM dropdeck IS side:

2 x AWS-8R (4 x LRM15 + 3 x ERML, 300 Light engine, As much ammo as can fit)

1 x Pirate's Bane ( 2 x MG + 4 x ERSL + Stealth Armor) or equivalent

1 x one medium mech of your choice.

Alternatively, you can use other IS LRM boats, but you wanna keep your tube count at a minimum of 60, and your ammo count at roughly 2000+

Maulers, Stalkers, Cyclopes and Archers are good candidates. Catapults, are ok, but low tube/ammo count.

The point of the above stated dropdecks is to have a ton of LRMs raining on the called target at any one time, firing continuously, and from deep cover. The LRMs are meant as much for suppressing enemy movements as for raw damage. Multiple LRM boats raining on the same target without getting shot themselves will ruin an enemy's day real fast.

The light/medium mechs are meant for harassment, capping and NARC-ing. If you want others to NARC for you, you gotta be able to do the same for them. A single NARC-er can change the battle to a win. Make sure your fast movers have 2 UAVs and use them appropriately.

Suggested playstyle:

For LRM boat assaults: stay in deep cover and shoot at anything you can lock. You wanna keep raining continuously, never letting up, and always keeping the enemy suppressed. Once all ammo is spent, you will usually be only lightly damaged, so if the enemy is regrouping simply eject. If the enemy is already / still present and visible, announce over VOIP which area you're in, and PUSH the enemy, making yourself a meat shield for your teammates to move behind. Such pushes are often extremely successful, and you've got nothing to lose since you're out of ammo anyway.

For lights and fast mediums: You wanna keep the enemy lit-up and visible. You are a distraction, a harasser, and a scout for your team. Pop UAVs. Narc. Go for exposed soft backs. You wanna keep the enemy's attention on you while they are getting rained on by your teammates.

Edited by Vellron2005, 30 March 2018 - 01:07 AM.

[Kaoba]

Vellron2005, on 30 March 2018 - 12:46 AM, said:

I commend your post for helping new players (not that we have much of those)

I'm not even gonna bust your chops for being an LRM hater, but will say this:

Since you included various play styles, you should have mentioned LRMs, since in FP LRMs can indeed be extremely useful in some situations and on many maps. True, they are atrocious on some maps, but on some, especially on Siege: defend, you simply can't deny a good LRM defense is not an option.

Since I know you're gonna say "never bring LRMs to FP, LRMs are bad, yada yada yada.. I'm gonna fill in this list for you, so that people can make up their own minds if they wanna try it or not.

First off - LRMs in FP - USE them on Alpine, Polar, Tourmaline, Grim Plexus, Frozen, Canyon, Bog and any Siege:Defend map, except Grim Portico.

DO NOT USE them on Siege attack maps except Sulfurous rift, but only when pushing Alpha gate. Also, don't use them on maps not mentioned above.

FP LRM Dropdeck builds (Clan):

Dropdeck 1)

2 x Supernova SNV-A (4 x LRM20 + 4 x CERSL + 1JJ and as much ammo as you can fit. Alternatively, bring 2 x LRM20+2 x LRM15 + 4 x CERSL for extra ammo) Skill for full missile nodes, velocity, range and sensors, with 2 cool shots and some survival. You wanna bring 2500-3500 LRM missiles worth of ammo. Use highest rating CXL engine.

1 x Arctic Cheetah (6 x ERSL + NARC / 6 CMG + NARC)

1 x Myst Lynx (8 x CHMG + 3 CERSL)

Dropdeck 2)

Same as above, but instead of Supernova SNV-A, you can use 2 Madcats MCII-4 with the same builds, or 2 Highlanders HGN-IIC-B (4 x LRM20 + 2ERML) or a combination of any of the three.

FP LRM dropdeck IS side:

2 x AWS-8R (4 x LRM15 + 3 x ERML, 300 Light engine, As much ammo as can fit)

1 x Pirate's Bane ( 2 x MG + 4 x ERSL + Stealth Armor) or equivalent

1 x one medium mech of your choice.

Alternatively, you can use other IS LRM boats, but you wanna keep your tube count at a minimum of 60, and your ammo count at roughly 2000+

Maulers, Stalkers, Cyclopes and Archers are good candidates. Catapults, are ok, but low tube/ammo count.

The point of the above stated dropdecks is to have a ton of LRMs raining on the called target at any one time, firing continuously, and from deep cover. The LRMs are meant as much for suppressing enemy movements as for raw damage. Multiple LRM boats raining on the same target without getting shot themselves will ruin an enemy's day real fast.

The light/medium mechs are meant for harassment, capping and NARC-ing. If you want others to NARC for you, you gotta be able to do the same for them. A single NARC-er can change the battle to a win. Make sure your fast movers have 2 UAVs and use them appropriately.

Suggested playstyle:

For LRM boat assaults: stay in deep cover and shoot at anything you can lock. You wanna keep raining continuously, never letting up, and always keeping the enemy suppressed. Once all ammo is spent, you will usually be only lightly damaged, so if the enemy is regrouping simply eject. If the enemy is already / still present and visible, announce over VOIP which area you're in, and PUSH the enemy, making yourself a meat shield for your teammates to move behind. Such pushes are often extremely successful, and you've got nothing to lose since you're out of ammo anyway.

For lights and fast mediums: You wanna keep the enemy lit-up and visible. You are a distraction, a harasser, and a scout for your team. Pop UAVs. Narc. Go for exposed soft backs. You wanna keep the enemy's attention on you while they are getting rained on by your teammates.

haHA

[naterist]

Vellron2005, on 30 March 2018 - 12:46 AM, said:

lrm defending

lol, lrms are ****, and should only be used by advanced players as a joke. they have no place in a newb guide.

OP, if you wanted, you should mention hp stacking IS side, which involves only putting mechs in your deck that are uber quirked for survival and just drowning the enemy team in your force of 12 super healthy mechs.

Edited by naterist, 30 March 2018 - 12:44 PM.

[Eisenhorne]

survival mech deck sounds fun, you could realistically run 48 roughnecks for an assault deck, that would be pretty "rough" to take out.

[naterist]

Eisenhorne, on 30 March 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

survival mech deck sounds fun, you could realistically run 48 roughnecks for an assault deck, that would be pretty "rough" to take out.

annihilator, 2 roughnecks, wolfhound

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

naterist, on 30 March 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

lol, lrms are ****, and should only be used by advanced players as a joke. they have no place in a newb guide.

OP, if you wanted, you should mention hp stacking IS side, which involves only putting mechs in your deck that are uber quirked for survival and just drowning the enemy team in your force of 12 super healthy mechs.

I did without really explicitly stating it. Note the suggested decks like 3 Archers and a Bushwacker; 3 Black Knights and a Wolfhound; 2 Victors, 1 Archer, and a Wolfhound; Battlemaster 2C and 3 Dragons. Though, as I said before, this is mostly aimed at solo players rather than 12 man teams, so they can't trust the 11 other players to also bring high health mechs to drown out the enemy in health.

Vellron2005, on 30 March 2018 - 12:46 AM, said:

LRM decks pls

From what I saw, it seemed that PUGs already try to play exactly as you suggest. Its not working out well for them. When you have half the team in the back in assaults trying to lock onto whatever the poor other half of the team up front getting shot is looking at, only to have 90% of the missiles hit a wall because the enemy team can easily just move back to cover by the time your missiles hit its not a recipe for victory and not helping anyone but the enemy team.

Besides that, I'm not an LRM hater, I just hate the way you suggest using LRMs. They require the work of a whole team and only act as a leech when fired from behind cover in the back using team locks and don't even do much damage in comparison to other methods of using them. I'll use LRMs from time to time, getting my own locks to guarantee hits, and dealing massive damage, but even as you stated in your own post, LRMs are extremely situational, sometimes being practically hard countered by a certain map, and in your case, and the case of most randoms using LRMs, they rely heavily on team mates if you do not have the high level of positioning skill required to be a front line LRMer. Basically I'm an Artemis LRM player and you're one who never needs it.

[justcallme A S H]

Vellron2005, on 30 March 2018 - 12:46 AM, said:

Spoiler

I commend your post for helping new players (not that we have much of those)

I'm not even gonna bust your chops for being an LRM hater, but will say this:

Since you included various play styles, you should have mentioned LRMs, since in FP LRMs can indeed be extremely useful in some situations and on many maps. True, they are atrocious on some maps, but on some, especially on Siege: defend, you simply can't deny a good LRM defense is not an option.

Since I know you're gonna say "never bring LRMs to FP, LRMs are bad, yada yada yada.. I'm gonna fill in this list for you, so that people can make up their own minds if they wanna try it or not.

First off - LRMs in FP - USE them on Alpine, Polar, Tourmaline, Grim Plexus, Frozen, Canyon, Bog and any Siege:Defend map, except Grim Portico.

DO NOT USE them on Siege attack maps except Sulfurous rift, but only when pushing Alpha gate. Also, don't use them on maps not mentioned above.

FP LRM Dropdeck builds (Clan):

Dropdeck 1)

2 x Supernova SNV-A (4 x LRM20 + 4 x CERSL + 1JJ and as much ammo as you can fit. Alternatively, bring 2 x LRM20+2 x LRM15 + 4 x CERSL for extra ammo) Skill for full missile nodes, velocity, range and sensors, with 2 cool shots and some survival. You wanna bring 2500-3500 LRM missiles worth of ammo. Use highest rating CXL engine.

1 x Arctic Cheetah (6 x ERSL + NARC / 6 CMG + NARC)

1 x Myst Lynx (8 x CHMG + 3 CERSL)

Dropdeck 2)

Same as above, but instead of Supernova SNV-A, you can use 2 Madcats MCII-4 with the same builds, or 2 Highlanders HGN-IIC-B (4 x LRM20 + 2ERML) or a combination of any of the three.

FP LRM dropdeck IS side:

2 x AWS-8R (4 x LRM15 + 3 x ERML, 300 Light engine, As much ammo as can fit)

1 x Pirate's Bane ( 2 x MG + 4 x ERSL + Stealth Armor) or equivalent

1 x one medium mech of your choice.

Alternatively, you can use other IS LRM boats, but you wanna keep your tube count at a minimum of 60, and your ammo count at roughly 2000+

Maulers, Stalkers, Cyclopes and Archers are good candidates. Catapults, are ok, but low tube/ammo count.

The point of the above stated dropdecks is to have a ton of LRMs raining on the called target at any one time, firing continuously, and from deep cover. The LRMs are meant as much for suppressing enemy movements as for raw damage. Multiple LRM boats raining on the same target without getting shot themselves will ruin an enemy's day real fast.

The light/medium mechs are meant for harassment, capping and NARC-ing. If you want others to NARC for you, you gotta be able to do the same for them. A single NARC-er can change the battle to a win. Make sure your fast movers have 2 UAVs and use them appropriately.

Suggested playstyle:

For LRM boat assaults: stay in deep cover and shoot at anything you can lock. You wanna keep raining continuously, never letting up, and always keeping the enemy suppressed. Once all ammo is spent, you will usually be only lightly damaged, so if the enemy is regrouping simply eject. If the enemy is already / still present and visible, announce over VOIP which area you're in, and PUSH the enemy, making yourself a meat shield for your teammates to move behind. Such pushes are often extremely successful, and you've got nothing to lose since you're out of ammo anyway.

For lights and fast mediums: You wanna keep the enemy lit-up and visible. You are a distraction, a harasser, and a scout for your team. Pop UAVs. Narc. Go for exposed soft backs. You wanna keep the enemy's attention on you while they are getting rained on by your teammates.

I would urge everyone, if they want to be at least competitive in the mode, to totally disregard this post.

The skill floor is low enough as it is and there is no requirement for more LRMs than there already is (which, costs teams games).

[Bishop Six]

Lrms on attack mode?! How about "not in my group"?

[Vellron2005]

justcallme A S H, on 30 March 2018 - 03:52 PM, said:

I would urge everyone, if they want to be at least competitive in the mode, to totally disregard this post.

The skill floor is low enough as it is and there is no requirement for more LRMs than there already is (which, costs teams games).

Hater gonna hate

I think anything you say about anything I've said should be taken with a grain of salt, cose' the birds on the trees already know that you and I don't see eye to eye and disagree on most things.. So.. yeah.. whatever.

Disregard, or do not, but choose for yourself. Not cose' someone else says you're not supposed to bring LRMs to attack.

Bishop Six, on 02 April 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

Lrms on attack mode?! How about "not in my group"?

Bishop, I did state that LRMs are bad for attack, except on Sulfurous.. But this "not in my group" attitude is not nice.. If you actually create a group and the people in the group are "invite only" then you can make such a statement. (please don't invite me to such groups, like ever). But any group that a matchmaker puts you in is not "your group" any more than it's anyone else's group.. So don't bring that attitude unless you're in a custom made 12-man. Nothing gives anyone such rights.

Edited by Vellron2005, 03 April 2018 - 12:44 AM.

[Bishop Six]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2018 - 12:41 AM, said:

Bishop, I did state that LRMs are bad for attack, except on Sulfurous.. But this "not in my group" attitude is not nice.. If you actually create a group and the people in the group are "invite only" then you can make such a statement. (please don't invite me to such groups, like ever). But any group that a matchmaker puts you in is not "your group" any more than it's anyone else's group.. So don't bring that attitude unless you're in a custom made 12-man. Nothing gives anyone such rights.

My group, invite only, jep. What other guys or groups are doing doesnt matter for me. But if you want to join my group and i suggest a tactic, sort out which range, which mechs, who to focus (Hi Sky ) and you say: "Muuh Lurms". No, that won't work

But you are Clanner anyway, so i like it if you take Lurms. But really sometimes i see very embarassing things regarding Lurms and Clanner....Its like feeling sad for the enemy and the single ones who actually try to do good performance.

Edit: But there are some cases where pilots ASKING me if it would be ok when they take lurms this match. Then i try to build this (single one!) pilot into my tactics if Lurms are at least minimum useful on a map/mode. But attack? Never. No Map. Even Boreal not.

Edited by Bishop Six, 03 April 2018 - 07:11 AM.

[naterist]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2018 - 12:41 AM, said:

Hater gonna hate

I think anything you say about anything I've said should be taken with a grain of salt, cose' the birds on the trees already know that you and I don't see eye to eye and disagree on most things.. So.. yeah.. whatever.

Disregard, or do not, but choose for yourself. Not cose' someone else says you're not supposed to bring LRMs to attack.



Bishop, I did state that LRMs are bad for attack, except on Sulfurous.. But this "not in my group" attitude is not nice.. If you actually create a group and the people in the group are "invite only" then you can make such a statement. (please don't invite me to such groups, like ever). But any group that a matchmaker puts you in is not "your group" any more than it's anyone else's group.. So don't bring that attitude unless you're in a custom made 12-man. Nothing gives anyone such rights.

I hope you bring your lrm decks, and that you are on the opposite team as much as possible. I hope you have an entire team that consistently follows you into battle with nothing but lrms. Yes, the cockpit shake you create IS a viable alternative to effective damage, yes , glorious. You are correct and lrms are a good idea if you are clan, but only if you are clan. Never forget these words of wisdom. Go forth and conquer the galaxy, the lrms will aid you, but you must only bring lrms, all other weapons are FFFF U CKING HERESY! Go forth child, and rain little tiny explosions upon the legs, arms, and if your lucky, the st's of your enemy. It shall be glorious, let none tell you otherwise!